Flames

I guess Loricatus as well, given he is the god of SPOILER ALERT. Click here to see text.

Continuing the discussion in the shoutbox

Now that water is much more essential to survival, I wonder if we should make it more readily available, in containers that monsters can't drink?
Also, are you able to douse multiple items at once? i.e. you should be able to douse your entire body at once, not limb by limb. And your entire pack at once.

I love the flame system, but I think it's too powerful right now.

In real life, you'd be able to pat fires out, or roll around to extinguish them. For a scroll or book you might be able to beat or blow them out.

I think if your limbs catch fire, the flames should go out almost immediately. Same for any items that you're wearing. They'll suffer burn damage but shouldn't stay aflame.
Other items, the flames should die off after several steps depending on the material.

Right now when I play, whenever anything catches fire I pretty much have to write it off, which is a little frustrating and doesn't feel realistic.

Of course extinguishing the fire is always the best option, but if you don't have any way to do that, you should have a chance of the items still surviving.

One way could be to apply a statistical test that the flames die away at each burn level transition. We could weight it so that the complete disappearance of an item/limb due to burning is set to no greater than 10%. See attached probability tree.

If I may critique my own suggestion, it does not offer the player any new ways to put out flames of her own volition.

Shall I implement the statistical test anyway and you can see how you like it?
You can assess the proposed implementation here: https://github.com/Attnam/ivan/pull/64

Even if a player could put out fires manually, it's probably a good idea to have some chance of them going out on their own. Especially so if you need to expend resources to do it.

Cool. Looks like it's been added in on the git
I did this test twice: 60 scrolls total in inventory and applied a wand of fireballs.

| test number | not on fire | on fire     | insta-burn  | slightly    | moderately  | heavily     | completely  |
| #1          | 25          | 24          | 11          | 3           | 12          | 9           | 0           |
| #2          | 31          | 24          | 5           | 7           | 12          | 4           | 1           |

I agree with this.
Maybe you could improve your chances of putting the fire out via rapid movement too? Stop-drop-and-roll would be good but that'd mean coding the ability to roll manually without having to lose your limbs.
Equip burning items in hand and hit things with it?

Question. How much work would you need to modify the "burn" status to "cook" to make meat more nutritious and last longer? Or is it possible to add one step below "burnt" for a specific category of materials?

Even better than hitting things, implementing a way to force an attack in a chosen direction. That could be used to help with fires on held items + your arms, along with kicking for legs. Then again, flailing around while you're on fire isn't exactly the most efficient method of putting yourself out IRL. Additional oxygen available etc. Would work for smaller fires though.

On dipping burning things into liquids, shouldn't vodka explode if you try to extinguish things with it?

I think this would be fairly easy to do. Burning flesh could cause it to change material type (say, flesh->meat) and the burning level could translate into grill-level (rare, medium rare, medium, well done).


Yep this is supposed to make the vodka explode. It seems I forgot to implement. That and burning the character's head while eating burning food.

I've always wanted that anyway, as an alternative to kicking things to break them.
If you have weak babby legs, doesn't it make sense to try to break down a door with your warhammer or axe?

Doors and walls can already take damage and break when they run out of HP, the only thing we're missing is being able to fight inanimate objects. Though it might be a good idea to restrict wall digging to pickaxes.

hmm, it might need to be the next thing that gets coded, along with JoKe's suggestion about forcing an attack in a specific direction. Maybe a lowercase 'b' for bashing things? You'd need to wield something with a "BLUNT_WEAPONS" weapon category.

Not necessarily. For example, axes are good for breaking down doors hence why fire axes are a thing.
What you could do instead of requiring a blunt weapon is have different inanimate objects take different damage multipliers by damage type - currently all the "damage type" does is influence the language around an attack. So a blunt attack comes up as "you bash the skeleton with your steel mace" for example.
Since that's only a get function (or parameter) away and already used, maybe it won't be so bad to implement?

Unless you want to take the opportunity to actually implement different weapon and armour types. Lemme dig up the IRC logs... Huh, there's some other stuff. I'll just grab the lot of 'em.

18:55 <+J_Kahvi> yes, at the chaotic town of Aluppliv has been on the to-do list for a long time
18:56 <+J_Kahvi> are these plans somewhere on the internet to be seen?

18:58 <+J_Kahvi> I've been devising an improved weapon and armor system for some time, but I'm not sure if it's available on the net at the moment
18:58 <+J_Kahvi> it introduces three different damage types (point, cut, blunt) and different armors perform differently depending on the damage type
18:59 <+J_Kahvi> for example, chain mail does not protect much from blunt damage, because it's too flexible
18:59 <+J_Kahvi> I could write some kind of an article about it in case someone is interested about it
19:00 < Zeno> got it: http://ivan.cvs.sourceforge.net/ivan/ivan/Doc/Work/City%20id...
19:01 < Zeno> chaotic town of Aluppliv is not written here
19:01 < Zeno> is not described rather
19:02 <+J_Kahvi> hmm. i've never seen that list before. but looks good
19:03 < Zeno> two of them are mentioned in the game, Bazaria (the tourists are from there) and Irinox (farmers say something like "you look like you are from Irinox")

19:09 < blobby> its true that there could a be a quest about finding your parents that would start in irinox
19:10 < Zeno> what's known about the player character's parents?
19:10 < Zeno> nothing?
19:10 < Zeno> only that he was raised by a hippo?
19:10 < blobby> nothing. he s an orphan raised by hippos
19:10 < Zeno> orphan?
19:10 < blobby> oh well i mean
19:10 < Zeno> or missing parents?
19:10 < blobby> lost child
19:10 < blobby> yeah
19:10 < Zeno> ok
19:10 < blobby> sorry
19:11 < Zeno> that makes sense
19:12 < Zeno> since it is a city of witches and shamans, it could be also a way to give you magical abilities once they are implemented
19:13 < blobby> fuck yeah
19:13 < blobby> damn, that would have been smooth
19:13 < Zeno> or, an original idea: you can try to search for your parents in all cities, and find them in the first city where you finish your quest
19:13 < Zeno> and depending on what you chose, you would get different kinds of special abilities
19:14 < Zeno> (like classes)
19:14 < Zeno> since you have two parents, this could work twice per game...
19:15 < Zeno> (you are lucky, that's why you find them in the first city, or first two cities)
19:16 < herself> now we need a coder that would implement that
19:16 < Zeno>
19:21 < blobby> we always need a coder to implement great ideas "n_n
19:22 < blobby> but its useless to dream. to have anything done we d need something like a magic team of 3 coders appearing of nowhere and willing to spend a month working on ivan
19:22 < blobby> nothing that complex will ever be done

21:55 <+J_Kahvi> one thing i've been thinking of recently are dreams
21:55 <+J_Kahvi> that the character would have to sleep once in a while, and during these stages the character would dream
21:56 <+J_Kahvi> and how the character performs during the dreams would affect something, like stats or quests
21:56 <+J_Kahvi> so they would be a sort of a "mini-game"
21:56 <+J_Kahvi> it has to be implemented well in order for it to work, but it could be quite cool
21:59 <+J_Kahvi> I'll try to produce a text of the different damage types in the near future. The idea's quite old so I've had time to put a lot of thought into it

Oh BAH. The searching led me to the IVANcon and Kahvi was going to send Erno a chart regarding it. It's not available on the internet.

How long ago was this? It would be nice if we could acquire this chart.

IVANcon was 2010. Either Erno forgot it or he never received it. Or we just never got around to coding it so it's been sitting in Erno's hard drive for years.

BTW, (b)ash command would also be ideal for getting fruit from trees.

You could, for example, make it a renewable source of food, with bashing not damaging the tree (thant's what (a)pplying an axe at it is for ), but only shaking the fruits off it, with a cooldown for the tree, so that you could only get one fruit every several hours (several fruits every several days?). That way, you would still need to get some food from shop sometimes, when all the trees are recharging, but still could sometimes snack on the pineapples you bash down from pine trees (how else ).

I like this idea.
I also like the idea of pine trees dropping "pineapples".

This pineapple tastes like bark and splinters

Add the rolling to put the flames out as a function for waiting '.'.

I couldn't locate the chart, sorry. I don't remember receiving one either, but a lot has happened since then.

I DID find some e-mails about face gfx. Are those what you're looking for, and where can I forward them?

No, not the faces. Different damage and armour types.

Erno, was that part of the proposed mood system?

Yeah, it was. So nope, I haven't received what you're looking for.

Well this was a brutal sight to stumble across...

Also, the burning scrolls are far too forgiving. Books seem to burn immediately (like always) while the scrolls just catch fire and give you plenty of time to read and use them. If anything it should be the other way around, since a book would obviously take far longer to burn than a sheet of parchment.

there has to be some item that protects pack items from fire, like ADOM's fireproof blanket.

Wouldn't a strongbox suffice?

Wooden chests should definitely be burnable if they aren't already.