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Nov 3, 2015, 2:45 am
#76
Joined: Sep 8, 2010
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That sounds quirky. Are you sure books are disproportionately "insta-burning"? I had hoped that they would be covered in the same way as scrolls. Seems like burning flesh is behaving as intended
Nov 3, 2015, 5:28 pm
#77
capristo's avatar
The Imperialist


Joined: Dec 2, 2007
Location: New Attnam
Interests: bananas
Posts: 1,950
Pent wrote
Wooden chests should definitely be burnable if they aren't already.

That's just evil

Nov 4, 2015, 6:25 am
#78
red_kangaroo's avatar
goblin prince


Joined: Apr 2, 2014
Location: North Tyris
Posts: 396
capristo wrote

Pent wrote
Wooden chests should definitely be burnable if they aren't already.

That's just evil

Burning items placed inside of flammable containers sould have a chance of both setting other items inside ablaze or burning the container.

Also, SOCMing large chest filled with wands into a gunpowder, then putting a burning stick inside, dropping it next to Petrus and running like hell, anyone?
Nov 4, 2015, 6:56 pm
#79
Joined: Sep 8, 2010
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Location: Drinking pea soup in the world map
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red_kangaroo wrote
Burning items placed inside of flammable containers sould have a chance of both setting other items inside ablaze or burning the container.

This should ideally be another way for flames to propagate in the game, but I found it difficult to conceptualize how best to do this in the code. A wooden chest would also be able to burn and spill its contents once it's completely burnt, but that hasn't been coded yet.
Feb 13, 2016, 11:51 pm
#80
Joined: Mar 17, 2008
Occupation: Software developer
Location: Ohio
Interests: Physics
Posts: 67
I just opened a PR to make lanterns ignite stuff. It works, in that breaking a lantern over a pile of stuff ignites that stuff, but it still needs some work. If someone could take a look, I'd appreciate it.

Ighalli
Feb 14, 2016, 1:52 am
#81
capristo's avatar
The Imperialist


Joined: Dec 2, 2007
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Nice. I'll let someone else review it but thanks for contributing!
Feb 15, 2016, 5:03 am
#82
Joined: Sep 8, 2010
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Ighalli wrote
I just opened a PR to make lanterns ignite stuff. It works, in that breaking a lantern over a pile of stuff ignites that stuff, but it still needs some work. If someone could take a look, I'd appreciate it.

Ighalli

Wow Ighalli! So glad you're back! I will take a look at the code and test it out in the coming days Keep on giving us the good stuff.
Feb 16, 2016, 2:40 am
#83
Joined: Sep 8, 2010
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Sorry for double post.

I'd like to draw attention to the mechanism of activation energy. When fire damage is inflicted on an item or character, its materials are tested for their activation energies to decide whether they catch fire or not. The activation energy is pretty much a threshold. If the fire damage inflicted is higher than
0.5*SV + 5*FR
then the item catches on fire. SV stands for Strength Value of a material, and FR stands for Fire Resistance of a material.
Note that a material that is already burnt will have a diminished SV, which means it is slightly easier to catch fire next time around.

Attached is a graph showing some activation thresholds for common materials.
Feb 16, 2016, 8:51 am
#84
Joined: Nov 22, 2008
Interests: IVAN
Posts: 1,163
Leather seems way too easy to ignite on that chart... Maybe it should have some (more?) inherent fire resistance?
Feb 17, 2016, 8:20 pm
#85
Joined: Mar 17, 2008
Occupation: Software developer
Location: Ohio
Interests: Physics
Posts: 67
Right now lanterns produce a 5 damage explosion fireball. I added the ability to make explosions only deal fire damage instead of 1/2 fire + 1/2 physical. Wands of Fireballs and lanterns are the only place that's used. The ignition points strike me as pretty high, since much of the time a creature will die before it's equipment ignites. Looks like giant plants (ignition value 3.5) should be able to burn from lanterns, after we add that, so maybe it's about right. Maybe banana peels and other wet things should get a level of FR. I'd like to come back to lanterns and make them spill a flammable liquid and ignite that.

Anyone interested in making art for fireball type explosions? Something like the current explosion but redder? If some generous soul produces them, I'll add them. Or, we could take the longer term goal of making the explosion color palette variable.
Feb 17, 2016, 9:37 pm
#86
Joined: Dec 17, 2007
Occupation: Taking Names, Formerly Kicking Ass
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 783
Burning banana peels should cause confusion.
Feb 17, 2016, 10:28 pm
#87
Joined: Dec 11, 2008
Posts: 1,765
I could look into doing the fire explosions.
Only thing is last time I looked into making IVAN sprites I wasn't entirely sure of how to save them so the game recognizes them properly, since IVAN uses an archaic image format.
I was basically being careful by opening the image files as-is and only taking colours from those already present on the sheet.
Feb 17, 2016, 11:22 pm
#88
Joined: Mar 17, 2008
Occupation: Software developer
Location: Ohio
Interests: Physics
Posts: 67
4zb4, awesome!

You can use GIMP to open, edit, then "Export As... -> ZSoft PCX image". I recommend taking the original explosions in Symbol.pcx (just click Raw to download) and simply rearranging the palette such that the yellows are #192-207 and the greys are 208-223. You can do that by opening the file in GIMP and going to "Colors->Map->Rearrange Color Map..." and dragging them around. You should then go through all the original yellow and greys in that file that aren't explosions to make sure they're not in those high color ranges. For an explanation of why you might want to rearrange a color map, take a look at this explanations of colors in IVAN.

Alternatively, you could use ImageMagick to write a few commands to recolor the explosions so that they use the colors in the special bands or to rearrange the palette. That's somewhat more advanced, but you can find examples of the commands to accomplish most anything in ImageMagick with a bit of Googling.

This will solve this note about M-colored explosions in the old developer notes on graphics, which is pretty nice to cross off.
Feb 18, 2016, 12:01 am
#89
Joined: Dec 11, 2008
Posts: 1,765
Man, I didn't want to have to download and use GIMP since I already have photoshop but it REALLY doesn't want to spit out compatible PCX files.
I'll take a shot at it, gimme a while.
Feb 18, 2016, 1:07 am
#90
Joined: Dec 11, 2008
Posts: 1,765
Ok, I've rearranged the yellows and grays so now they're where you said (4th to last row and 3rd to last row respectively).
Exported as a PCX here.

Not sure how to check whether it works but the colour palette appears to be fine.
Explosions appear as they do before, I kinda expected them to be big black blobs or something since I don't think they have material values set. I'm an idiot and just noticed Symbols.pcx isn't m-colour enabled by default.

ALSO!
I'm not sure how to check whether the yellows/greys present aren't the ones being used for m-colours! Help!
(I'm pretty sure the explosions share yellows with the altar symbol outlines and some of the "good" gods symbols)
EDIT: Checked via comparing hex values, explosions do in fact use some of the same yellows. What do we do now? Just have me replace the conflicting colours with as close as I can get with the regular colours?


My god.
Many edit.

Anyway, I've moved the yellows and grays where they need to be, and replaced any duplicated yellows/grays with close equivalents.
The only real casualty here was Sophos' symbol which now has white centers on its book pages rather than a lighter yellow. The altar symbols have a slightly lighter yellow edge.

Download here.

Here's what the colourmap looks like:
Feb 18, 2016, 5:29 am
#91
Joined: Sep 8, 2010
Occupation: Petty Functionary
Location: Drinking pea soup in the world map
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There's a post somewhere with the pallette colours for the game in a .pdf attachment.
I use Graphics Gale which is insane because it loads the associated pallette and you can set up a nice 16x16 grid.
Azba: I remember I wrote this four years ago as well, a workflow method for editing the graphics. It's important not to get the pallette muddled

It would be handy to make symbol.pcx m-color enabled, because then we could give the explosion sprite a "main material" and change colours that way...


Batman? wrote
Burning banana peels should cause confusion.

I agree, they should Maybe they should spout a curiously colored smoke as they burn?

Ighalli wrote
I added the ability to make explosions only deal fire damage instead of 1/2 fire + 1/2 physical. Wands of Fireballs and lanterns are the only place that's used.
Will this make for example Mr. Enner harder to kill?

Ighalli wrote
The ignition points strike me as pretty high, since much of the time a creature will die before it's equipment ignites.
It's true that the creatures will die. The ignition points for some exotic materials are deliberately high because explosions can cascade, and there are two values for thermal energy (storage); Transient and Steady-State. Transient acts as a temporary heat storage and if there are multiple explosions then all the fire damage gets accumulated, so you can potentially get hundreds of fire damage accumulating to set dragon hide on fire. Say if you stacked four large mines and stepped on one...
Transient thermal energy dies away in a short space of time, while steady state thermal energy acts as a switch.

Their also tiered according to the explosive power of various ignition sources. I wanted to create a heirarchy of effectiveness amongst materials, so that more advanced materials would generally offer a greater degree of protection. I also made it so if you are wearing spider silk and you carelessly have a direct hit with a big mine, then you better drop your trou' and piss on that armor: the game should punish players for stupidity if they are that far up the tech tree.
Some numbers from research I did into explosions:

Wand of fire balls strike : 20
Wand of fire balls apply : 30
Mine : 37
Izzy : 40
Big mine : 93
Veteran : 112 (adjacent square)
Holy hand grenade : 150


Ighalli wrote
Looks like giant plants (ignition value 3.5) should be able to burn from lanterns, after we add that, so maybe it's about right.
I think so. You have to have pretty good arm strength to smash a lantern, and the best chance of doing that is to smash it against a wall. So the plant needs to be situated against a wall to take advantage of this, which is a less common position since they mostly sprout in the middle of a corridor. I think it is suitably balanced of itself and players can use it as an unusual tactic in times of desperation.
Feb 18, 2016, 6:36 am
#92
Joined: Dec 11, 2008
Posts: 1,765
Warheck wrote
There's a post somewhere with the pallette colours for the game in a .pdf attachment.
I use Graphics Gale which is insane because it loads the associated pallette and you can set up a nice 16x16 grid.
Azba: I remember I wrote this four years ago as well, a workflow method for editing the graphics. It's important not to get the pallette muddled

It would be handy to make symbol.pcx m-color enabled, because then we could give the explosion sprite a "main material" and change colours that way...

I just followed Ighalli's instructions to convert the explosion colours (gray and yellow shades) to m-colors and it worked fine, I tested it in IVAN to make sure the colours and such weren't messed up and all seemed fine. We'll see what happens when someone tries to add code for pulling a material colour into the explosion sprite...
The explosions should use m-colours 1 and 2, 1 being the yellow part of the explosion and 2 being the grey outer.

As for being careful about using the exact colours, turns out I could use GIMP to extract the valid colours from Symbol.pcx itself and give me a nice palette to pick from, so no troubles there.
I just don't really know my way around GIMP so it was a little bit of a uh "learning experience"

The yellows I needed to replace from the deity symbols have been replaced with the yellow in slot 14, and the light yellow on sophos' pages with the white on slot 15.

I actually made and successfully implemented some sprites into IVAN before using photoshop but I have NO IDEA how I managed that because I couldn't get it to work again just now.
Remember the female wisdom-hair-growth concept thread?


That Graphics Gale thing looks WAY more convenient though.
Feb 18, 2016, 10:17 am
#93
Joined: Feb 20, 2012
Posts: 232
I still think that if we add female characters they should still grow a beard with high WIS...
Feb 18, 2016, 4:51 pm
#94
Joined: Dec 11, 2008
Posts: 1,765
I would also not be opposed to female characters growing a beard with high WIS, but people might think it was a programming oversight or something.
Feb 18, 2016, 7:15 pm
#95
Joined: Mar 17, 2008
Occupation: Software developer
Location: Ohio
Interests: Physics
Posts: 67
Wow that was fast! I wont' be able to get it to work tonight (but did start down the road here), but this weekend I'll see if I can make it happen. Thanks a bunch and sorry about my dubious editing advice!
Feb 19, 2016, 5:53 am
#96
Joined: Sep 8, 2010
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Ighalli wrote
Wow that was fast! I wont' be able to get it to work tonight (but did start down the road here), but this weekend I'll see if I can make it happen. Thanks a bunch and sorry about my dubious editing advice!

No worries, you're doing great things so keep it up. For myself, I only wish I was better at de-bugging.
Feb 21, 2016, 1:02 pm
#97
Joined: Mar 17, 2008
Occupation: Software developer
Location: Ohio
Interests: Physics
Posts: 67
I believe I've addressed the error fejoa was able to find in the lantern code using wizard mode. The lanterns + fireballs + explosions descriptions it probably ready to merge in.

Warheck, I don't think it will make the enner beast harder to kill. He's not fire resistant is he? Wands of fireball do the same amount of damage as before, but now it's 100% fire instead of 50% physical and 50% fire.
Feb 21, 2016, 4:27 pm
#98
Joined: Sep 8, 2010
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Posts: 926
I saw the latest commit, it makes sense to me now how the game was crashing.
I guess the only way to see how the change to wand of fireballs goes is for people to playtest. fejoa will merge the changes once he gets back from work today

EDIT: Merged, but we can isolate the wm exploding lantern bug for now since we know where the problem lies. At the moment I'm concerned about the toggle full-screen bug in Windows.
Feb 22, 2016, 11:24 am
#99
capristo's avatar
The Imperialist


Joined: Dec 2, 2007
Location: New Attnam
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Ighalli wrote
Warheck, I don't think it will make the enner beast harder to kill. He's not fire resistant is he? Wands of fireball do the same amount of damage as before, but now it's 100% fire instead of 50% physical and 50% fire.

I was also concerned about the enner but if this is true then I don't see a problem with the change.
Feb 22, 2016, 5:40 pm
Joined: Dec 11, 2008
Posts: 1,765
Maybe the enner's shouts should put out fire at close range?
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