accuracy question

Sep 20, 2009, 8:47 am

#1

hedgehog

Joined: Sep 20, 2009
Posts: 5

I have played IVAN for some time, and something always boggled me: different items have different accuracy. How does the accuracy written on the item actually affect your chance to hit the target?

Sep 20, 2009, 11:34 am

#2

archangel

Joined: Jan 11, 2008
Posts: 1,019

My best guess having no knowledge of the code is that weapon accuracy affects the % chance to hit. If you want a deeper analysis, your best bet is to go source-diving (or you can wait for one of the more knowledgeable users to come along, but that could take a while).

Sep 20, 2009, 12:46 pm

#3

hedgehog

Joined: Sep 20, 2009
Posts: 5

Yes, I guessed as much. The strange thing is, sometimes the more accurate weapons miss for me a lot versus strong enemies (I guess it's to be expected), so I'm wondering whats the use of the inaccurate weapons if they will miss even more.

Sep 20, 2009, 12:59 pm

#4

The Imperialist

Joined: Dec 2, 2007
Location: New Attnam
Interests: bananas
Posts: 2,309

Inaccurate weapons (e.g. halberd) usually have greater damage. Accurate weapons (e.g. whips) have lower damage but a higher chance of a hit, and better chance for dismembering /beheading. If you enchant a whip +5, its damage will be comparable. Or, if you enchant a halberd +5 it will now not only have a ton of damage, it will also be very accurate. So I actually prefer inaccurate weapons, because once they are enchanted, they become accurate while still offering greater damage.

Sep 20, 2009, 3:53 pm

#5

hedgehog

Joined: Sep 20, 2009
Posts: 5

Allright, thanks for the clarification.

Sep 20, 2009, 4:39 pm

#6

archangel

Joined: Jan 11, 2008
Posts: 1,019

capristo wrote

Inaccurate weapons (e.g. halberd) usually have greater damage. Accurate weapons (e.g. whips) have lower damage but a higher chance of a hit, and better chance for dismembering /beheading. If you enchant a whip +5, its damage will be comparable. Or, if you enchant a halberd +5 it will now not only have a ton of damage, it will also be very accurate. So I actually prefer inaccurate weapons, because once they are enchanted, they become accurate while still offering greater damage.

Very true, but oftentimes it's tough to find enough enchantment scrolls to make the inaccurate weapons reliable. Occasionally I have gotten a few scrolls together before meeting Jenny and needing to pick a weapon to stick with, but not often.

Sep 20, 2009, 6:40 pm

#7

wolf

Joined: Mar 21, 2008
Location: Your ears!
Posts: 209

Some enemies are obviously better at dodging attacks. These are usually the smaller ones, though (hedgehogs, bats, rats, magpies). Larger enemies may have higher AC, like enemies that wear armour (eg. zombies or kobolds that can pick it up).

All in all, I find it that the accuracy displayed for weapons translated to your chance to hit pretty damn well in that low accuracy weapons get you killed by hedgehogs in UT1

Sep 20, 2009, 7:27 pm

#8

The Imperialist

Joined: Dec 2, 2007
Location: New Attnam
Interests: bananas
Posts: 2,309

That's true, having an inaccurate weapon early on can be bad. I usually let the puppy take on the hedgehogs, or just kick them, instead of trying to hit them with my ungainly halberd.

Sep 20, 2009, 7:50 pm

#9

angel

Joined: Jan 25, 2008
Occupation: Turns out I can't have a cool avatar, I'll just put crap in it.
Location: 48kg / 105 lbs
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I used to take up the halberd as soon as I had some kind of body armor

Well I assume that a bolt has a given, numeric, amouunt of perwer. (assi in enegri)... unless it's LAERSER SKISKLS POEWN PEWN!

Sep 20, 2009, 10:35 pm

#10

Mage Prophet

Joined: Dec 3, 2007
Occupation: Chaos Weaver
Location: Standing between all life and death
Posts: 2,898

I seem to recall that accuracy depends on a number of stats. It takes weapon accuracy and your dexterity. On the other end, size and agility factor into whether you hit the enemy or not. Of course, enemy dexterity also comes into play if they block. I'm wondering if weapon accuracy applies to blocking as well, and if weapon skills contribute anything.

Uchuudonge wrote

creating stable chaos
making patterns where there should be none
sewing order into the chaos
you spit in the face of random numbers, of chaos

Sep 21, 2009, 7:47 am

#11

wolf

Joined: Mar 21, 2008
Location: Your ears!
Posts: 209

Quote

I'm wondering if weapon accuracy applies to blocking as well, and if weapon skills contribute anything.

Didn't it work like that for shields at least? I think that would apply for other weapons too.

Sep 21, 2009, 11:15 am

#12

Ex-Tyrant of the IVANers

Joined: Dec 8, 2007
Occupation: Junior Scientist
Location: Not California
Interests: Physics and Astronomy, Exoplanets, Singing praise to Valpurus while smashing skulls with a bloody warhammer, Jogging
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Cerumen wrote

Didn't it work like that for shields at least? I think that would apply for other weapons too.

Probably correct; however other things probably come into play (like weapon size/type/etc). If memory serves I recall that long swords seem to block more frequently than whips.

"Put more stuff in the... thing where... more stuff goes in."

Sep 21, 2009, 2:01 pm

#13

wolf

Joined: Mar 21, 2008
Location: Your ears!
Posts: 209

Oh? I assumed weapon size and type are already taken into account when displaying a weapon's accuracy. Unless, of course, a weapon's block chance is different than a chance to hit in these cases.

Sep 22, 2009, 2:59 am

#14

Mage Prophet

Joined: Dec 3, 2007
Occupation: Chaos Weaver
Location: Standing between all life and death
Posts: 2,898

Cerumen wrote

Didn't it work like that for shields at least? I think that would apply for other weapons too.

Ehh, I'm not sure that's relevent here. Shields are made for blocking, that's what they do.

Uchuudonge wrote

creating stable chaos
making patterns where there should be none
sewing order into the chaos
you spit in the face of random numbers, of chaos

Sep 22, 2009, 2:21 pm

#15

wolf

Joined: Mar 21, 2008
Location: Your ears!
Posts: 209

Yes, but if it was so, the developers wouldn't bother calling shields' blocking properties "accuracy", I'm guessing, since that doesn't even make any intuitive sense. I'd say shields and weapons use accuracy in the same way, with the exception of shields being stripped of any offensive capabilities. Then again, that'd have to be checked.

Sep 22, 2009, 10:19 pm

#16

Mage Prophet

Joined: Dec 3, 2007
Occupation: Chaos Weaver
Location: Standing between all life and death
Posts: 2,898

Hmm, it could be that equipment have a primary action to which the "accuracy" applies, attacking for weapons and blocking for shields.

Uchuudonge wrote

creating stable chaos
making patterns where there should be none
sewing order into the chaos
you spit in the face of random numbers, of chaos

Sep 25, 2009, 3:37 am

#17

Atavus' Little Helper

Joined: Dec 2, 2007
Occupation: archmage
Location: Attnam
Interests: roguelikes
Posts: 375

Makes intuitive sense for me... to block an attack, you have to accurately hit the weapon with your shield.

Sep 25, 2009, 3:52 am

#18

Atavus

Joined: Dec 11, 2008
Posts: 1,770

I wouldn't say "accurately hit the weapon". It would be more like getting it in the way of the weapon, and given the size of most shields, accuracy is generally not a problem. Although there are points on the shield where the block would be more effective.

System would indicate in graphic if person is mounted on horse or not.
Same system also show if person mounted on boar, elephant, polar bear etc.
Or if person mounted on ass.
Ivan find mounting on ass funny.

Sep 25, 2009, 6:38 am

#19

gibberling

Joined: Jul 23, 2009
Occupation: Master in C.Sc: Acquired, Job: Acquired, Imposter Syndrome: Acquired
Posts: 89

You can't attack with a shield, but you can block with a weapon?

Sep 25, 2009, 10:19 am

#20

He Who Scars

Joined: Dec 4, 2007
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Location: Astragius Galaxy
Interests: Fiana, Peace, Melons
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Yes. Shields are just specialized to do so. Granted, you SHOULD be able to shield bash, I would say.

Proudly bringing disaster and mental scarring to Attnam since '05!

"You have a rather pleasant chat about finite superarmpits with Sanae the shrine maiden."

You hear distant shuffling.

The Enner Beast tells you to COOL IT!!

Sep 25, 2009, 10:38 am

#21

gibberling

Joined: Jul 23, 2009
Occupation: Master in C.Sc: Acquired, Job: Acquired, Imposter Syndrome: Acquired
Posts: 89

Yes, you can attack with two shields right?

EDIT: Nope, I was wrong, you're just kicking everything :/ smart way of training kicking tho...

Sep 25, 2009, 11:14 am

#22

He Who Scars

Joined: Dec 4, 2007
Occupation: Perfect Soldier
Location: Astragius Galaxy
Interests: Fiana, Peace, Melons
Posts: 1,057

Indeed, if you have no legs, you start biting.

Proudly bringing disaster and mental scarring to Attnam since '05!

"You have a rather pleasant chat about finite superarmpits with Sanae the shrine maiden."

You hear distant shuffling.

The Enner Beast tells you to COOL IT!!

Sep 25, 2009, 11:25 am

#23

angel

Joined: Jan 25, 2008
Occupation: Turns out I can't have a cool avatar, I'll just put crap in it.
Location: 48kg / 105 lbs
Interests: My name is Failbert
Posts: 697

Which makes me wonder - do I bite if my head is incapacitated, lol?

Well I assume that a bolt has a given, numeric, amouunt of perwer. (assi in enegri)... unless it's LAERSER SKISKLS POEWN PEWN!

Sep 25, 2009, 11:38 am

#24

Ex-Tyrant of the IVANers

Joined: Dec 8, 2007
Occupation: Junior Scientist
Location: Not California
Interests: Physics and Astronomy, Exoplanets, Singing praise to Valpurus while smashing skulls with a bloody warhammer, Jogging
Posts: 2,920

4zb4 wrote

I wouldn't say "accurately hit the weapon". It would be more like getting it in the way of the weapon, and given the size of most shields, accuracy is generally not a problem. Although there are points on the shield where the block would be more effective.

I have to disagree. I mean, yes, simply getting your shield in the way of a weapon is reasonably effective, it's a great way to break your shield. Much like a parry, the best way to use a shield is to strike the opponent's weapon out of the way with the *edge* of the shield -- rather than stopping the attack altogether, redirect it's force to the side so that it hits air, or the ground, as opposed to you. Effective plate armor works with the same principal.

"Put more stuff in the... thing where... more stuff goes in."

Sep 25, 2009, 3:45 pm

#25

hedgehog

Joined: Sep 20, 2009
Posts: 5

I see the thread is growing.
Well, another couple of questions: decently accurate><=accurate weapon?
Does any of the status effect such as burdened, stressed, invisibility etc affects your accuracy? I heard that burdened/stressed does, and logically invisibility should as well.