Psypher needs a nerf

Dec 23, 2018, 6:11 am
#1
Joined: May 22, 2008
Location: Worldmap
Posts: 144
I just lost a very promising character to a psypher golem on Ivan's level in possibly one of, if not the most, annoying way I've ever lost a promising character: killed in one hit with no sort of warning. Note that I was fighting this golem for a while and was fairly confident I wouldn't die since it didn't hit me once and I had very good equipment for that level (spider silk plate mail+4, valpurium shield+4), but suddenly I died even though I was at full health.

I've lost many characters to bad luck, lack of knowledge and wrong decisions, but never had I died like this. Looking for the material's strength I found it's 600 which is 200 harder than the hardest, valpurium. I think it needs a nerf. I don't think the game needs a material 200 stronger than valpurium that can finish an end game character in one hit.
Dec 23, 2018, 6:46 am
#2
Joined: Dec 14, 2017
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It is just a golem... Were you kiting him or just standing and taking hits?
Dec 23, 2018, 7:11 am
#3
red_kangaroo's avatar
elder dark mage


Joined: Apr 2, 2014
Location: North Tyris
Posts: 567
You got unlucky with being critted, your armor doesn't really matter. Every golem made of good material can end a run, because their crits are very strong. Have you ever tried fighting a valpuirum golem? It does not really matter that psypher is stronger than valpurium, as crits from a valpurium golem will end you just as surely as from a psypher golem. That's why you kite golems.
Dec 23, 2018, 1:46 pm
#4
Joined: May 22, 2008
Location: Worldmap
Posts: 144
Yes, I've killed many strong golems in my entire Ivan career (if one can call it that way ) but I've never died from a single hit from any monster whatsoever at a later stage like that. I've taken nasty hits from hardy golems, but I've never considered even valpurium ones that dangerous past certain point. Being one hit k.o.'ed by a monster who doesn't even trigger the "you sense danger" thing just doesn't seem right. Also, not knowing it was such a hard material made it even more unexpected and thought I didn't need to kite it/dance while invisible with it, since at worst I expected a tough hit to warn me first. Although I realized it had to be quite strong after hitting it probably 30+ times with a two handed valpurium sword+6 and only severing one limb. I mean, it's fun to die and discover new things on the early stages and learn from each death, but this was something else because the material is ridiculously strong and it didn't warn me as it would usually do with a very dangerous foe.
Dec 23, 2018, 2:00 pm
#5
red_kangaroo's avatar
elder dark mage


Joined: Apr 2, 2014
Location: North Tyris
Posts: 567
Yeah, no warning is not good. :/
Dec 23, 2018, 2:12 pm
#6
capristo's avatar
The Imperialist


Joined: Dec 2, 2007
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Agree - I have been one hit by golems plenty of times but usually I get the danger warning first.

Did you have anything that was granting you the "bravery" status effect? I forget if that's the exact name. But it makes you "reckless" as well so you don't get danger warnings.
Dec 23, 2018, 2:22 pm
#7
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I think Psypher was a material that first appeared in LIVAN. I'd say Lampshade probably gave it 600 strength without thinking about the consequences. I tend to agree with Azhael, it's overpowered as a golem material, and perhaps a bit unexpected for players whose experience is of Valpurium being the strongest material.

Psypher suggests it has some exotic properties. Perhaps it's strength could be reduced in favour of it gaining some weird effects, like granting extra intelligence, golems of this material doing psy attacks, granting/blocking esp, blocking mindworms, or enabling astral projection. Or perhaps the mere presence of the material has these strange effects all over a level?
Dec 23, 2018, 3:27 pm
#8
Joined: Sep 22, 2008
Posts: 631
Getting hit by adamantine or valpurium golems is already playing with fire regardless of armor, they are both capable of OHKOs without warning. I don't think psypher golems are any worse by that regard. One time I distinctly recall getting one-shot was through valpurium plate +6 or so, while whacking a valpurium golem with a valpurium head of an enner right after killing Elpuri. Sudden critical kick to the chest sent HP to negatives. Never messed with high end golems afterwards. :x

I will agree though with psypher likely being too strong for equipment, if it's a full third stronger than valpurium. Special effects would be a cool trade-off for a nerf.
Dec 23, 2018, 3:59 pm
#9
Joined: May 22, 2008
Location: Worldmap
Posts: 144
capristo wrote
Agree - I have been one hit by golems plenty of times but usually I get the danger warning first.

Did you have anything that was granting you the "bravery" status effect? I forget if that's the exact name. But it makes you "reckless" as well so you don't get danger warnings.

You mean the fearless status. No, I didn't have it.

JoKe wrote
Getting hit by adamantine or valpurium golems is already playing with fire regardless of armor, they are both capable of OHKOs without warning. I don't think psypher golems are any worse by that regard. One time I distinctly recall getting one-shot was through valpurium plate +6 or so, while whacking a valpurium golem with a valpurium head of an enner right after killing Elpuri. Sudden critical kick to the chest sent HP to negatives. Never messed with high end golems afterwards. :x

I will agree though with psypher likely being too strong for equipment, if it's a full third stronger than valpurium. Special effects would be a cool trade-off for a nerf.

I never had that experience. Also I was pretty confident since shields now give AV and the valpurium shield I had was around 23 or so. I'm not sure how the AV of shields work, but I'm guessing it affects the torso and the arm in which is wielded at least.

I also don't like the idea of a material being stronger than valpurium, since it's been like that for milennia and it's the material that comes from no other than the greatest being on the universe itself. I'd probably go for making psypher a tiny bit weaker than valpurium, which would be still very strong, and with some secondary effect as suggested. Something evil like maybe an inherent leech-life property, like Neerc Se-Ulb, or something related to corruption/destruction. Like a chance of breaking (or maybe even destroying) equipment regardless of material with a nice message like "the destructive psypher energies shatter the molecular bindings of your *insert your equipment here* from within. It breaks/is destroyed completely.". Only top-tier materials could only be broken by these energies when they proc while less durable ones would be completely vanished or needing two repairs to be good again (maybe adding the equivalent of scars to equipment, damaging them permanently too).

Anyway, I think there's plenty of room for innovation rather than just having a ridiculously strong material. Also, I'm butthurt I lost that character.

PS: On a side note, does Ivan's level spawn bone files or I just lost all that nice equipment forever? I can't remember.
Dec 23, 2018, 4:35 pm
#10
capristo's avatar
The Imperialist


Joined: Dec 2, 2007
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Posts: 2,141
It does suck to lose that character and I am all in favor of weakening it. I think valpurium should always be the strongest material, and golden eagle feather the strongest flexible material.

However I don't think the fact that it was a one hit kill was necessarily unbalanced by itself. It's a completely IVAN thing to happen
Dec 24, 2018, 12:58 am
#11
Ischaldirh's avatar
Ex-Tyrant of the IVANers


Joined: Dec 8, 2007
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Nothing should be stronger than Valpurium.

The idea of some materials having properties other than flexibility, hardness, and luminosity is great. I don't know the state of the current code, but that might be hard. It's certainly impossible with script coding only.

As for psypher itself: Assuming unique material properties are possible, perhaps psypher has a middle-high hardness and low (but not awful) flexibility, with the hidden property of abusing int and wis based on quantity (volume) and proximity (inverse square)... And perhaps it has a relatively low Int requirement. The result is that it becomes a good mid level material which stunts your long term development.
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