4zb4
I feel like there need to be a more definitive counter to mystic dark frogs. Like telecontrol preventing them from teleporting your equipment away.
In fact magic in general is pretty unfair toward the player (even for a roguelike) but it's mitigated by the fact that it isn't all that common a threat
Ischaldirh
I do agree, but I don't think there shuold be a *hard* counter. Otherwise MDF and Izzy lose a lot of their potency.
red_kangaroo
Re: overpowered magic, I still think Willpower as already existing but unused stat could be useful to grant a chance to resist teleproting equipment, debuffs and such.
Serin-Delaunay
Willpower seems the best option for a soft counter to spellcasters, but how would it be trained? What ommel fluid would give willpower experience?
4zb4
I think it should have its own Ommel fluid, because it should be the most difficult stat to raise. We could use Ommel Mucus, Ommel Vomit, Ommel Bile, Ommel Blood, Ommel Saliva...
capristo
There needs to be a way to train it without fluids too
Ischaldirh
We already have ommel mucus (ommel snot). What about ommel fat?
As for training it - controlled teleportations and polymorphs could train it. Uncontrolled ones could abuse it. In both cases training should be slow.
Willpower to counter magic
Oct 14, 2016, 4:22 pm
The Imperialist
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Location: New Attnam
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Continuing the discussion from shoutbox
Oct 14, 2016, 4:29 pm
The Imperialist
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I like where this is headed but I'm worried about the training.
There just aren't many opportunities or reasons to use controlled teleport / polymorph before meeting the mystic dark frogs.
Polymorph is especially useless, except defensively (controlling it when you accidentally step in magic mushroom dust). I would hate to have to spend time intentionally polymorphing myself into other things, just to train Willpower. But then again I don't like going out of my way to train things in general, that's why I've never done the banana peel dexterity training
There just aren't many opportunities or reasons to use controlled teleport / polymorph before meeting the mystic dark frogs.
Polymorph is especially useless, except defensively (controlling it when you accidentally step in magic mushroom dust). I would hate to have to spend time intentionally polymorphing myself into other things, just to train Willpower. But then again I don't like going out of my way to train things in general, that's why I've never done the banana peel dexterity training
Oct 14, 2016, 8:27 pm
Atavus
Joined: Dec 11, 2008
Posts: 1,770
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If we interpret willpower literally, we don't need to limit it to being trained by just the things it defends against.
i.e. we interpret it as mental fortitude or determination.
It could be trained by:
i.e. we interpret it as mental fortitude or determination.
It could be trained by:
- Fighting or defeating dangerous enemies - the ones that cause a warning message to be printed.
- Recovering from injuries that caused the player to be unable to use a limb (or just severe injuries in general, maybe just when HP is restored like with END but not as fast)
- Completing quests or quest objectives
- Defeating named enemies
- Passing unconsciousness checks
- Landing hits while confused
- Defeating spellcasters
- Overcoming harmful statuses
- Eating school food
System would indicate in graphic if person is mounted on horse or not. Same system also show if person mounted on boar, elephant, polar bear etc. Or if person mounted on ass. Ivan find mounting on ass funny.
Oct 15, 2016, 12:45 am
Mage Prophet
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Occupation: Chaos Weaver
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Perhaps overcoming panic as well? Shaking off polymorphitis/teleportitis? Intentionally pissing off others?
By the way, the shoutbox history is still broken cap. I'd kind of like to see that in its entirety and/or whatever else I've missed.
By the way, the shoutbox history is still broken cap. I'd kind of like to see that in its entirety and/or whatever else I've missed.
creating stable chaos
making patterns where there should be none
sewing order into the chaos
you spit in the face of random numbers, of chaos
making patterns where there should be none
sewing order into the chaos
you spit in the face of random numbers, of chaos
Oct 15, 2016, 5:45 am
archangel
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Good suggestions, this is the type of stuff that's possible to write into the code quite easily.
its been so long since i had gotten that far i didnt think it through. arrrr!!!!!!
Oct 15, 2016, 5:54 am
The town crier
Joined: Sep 22, 2008
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Posts: 634
Willpower would be the most boring stat ever and frankly just feature bloat if all it did was resist spells or shorten magic-itises. Tying magic control to WIL instead of INT could be neat, but IVAN needs more controllable magical effects than just teleport or polymorph to not just be an extra annoyance to level.
I don't personally find mages in need of another counter, as it stands they're simple enough to kill with detect material + controlled teleport. All of their effects can be negated individually, including equipment teleportation by just carrying spares. I did however like chao's idea:
There's a similar amulet in Nethack I believe, haven't played it enough to have found one.
I don't personally find mages in need of another counter, as it stands they're simple enough to kill with detect material + controlled teleport. All of their effects can be negated individually, including equipment teleportation by just carrying spares. I did however like chao's idea:
So, a ring of stability that negates all polymorph/teleport in your square?
There's a similar amulet in Nethack I believe, haven't played it enough to have found one.
Oct 16, 2016, 12:19 pm
archangel
Joined: Apr 2, 2014
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Tying magic control to WIL instead of INT could be neat, but IVAN needs more controllable magical effects than just teleport or polymorph to not just be an extra annoyance to level.
Maybe control tele and poly with Wil and leave Int with faster scroll reading, material change and ESP range? Int feels slightly overpowered as is for me and this could bring nice balance with other stats.
I also like resisting panic and unconsciousness with Wil.
Oct 16, 2016, 12:36 pm
Ex-Tyrant of the IVANers
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WIL could also be useful with confusion.
"Put more stuff in the... thing where... more stuff goes in."
Oct 17, 2016, 5:26 am
archangel
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Occupation: Petty Functionary
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It might be worth investigating how each of the stats balance out currently. For example Cha is a stat with a highly limited set of uses, while Int at least anecdotally has a huge range of purposes. Maybe Cha could also be expanded in addition to Wil?
its been so long since i had gotten that far i didnt think it through. arrrr!!!!!!
Oct 17, 2016, 11:24 am
archangel
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Cha influences shop prices and taming right now, right? If could do some of the following:
* limit the number of pets you can have at one time; if you tame a new monster, one of the older ones becomes friendly instead (team FORMER_PETS),
* increase chances of monsters panicking while they see/fight you (you look more threatening),
* grant a chance of any hostile monster (except for uniques and bosses) spawning neutral instead.
* limit the number of pets you can have at one time; if you tame a new monster, one of the older ones becomes friendly instead (team FORMER_PETS),
* increase chances of monsters panicking while they see/fight you (you look more threatening),
* grant a chance of any hostile monster (except for uniques and bosses) spawning neutral instead.
Oct 17, 2016, 11:46 am
The Imperialist
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I was going to suggest that last bullet as well. If your charisma is really really high, it would be awesome if when you attack Petrus, some of the Attnamese join your side.
Oct 17, 2016, 2:38 pm
Atavus
Joined: Dec 11, 2008
Posts: 1,770
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On the same line of thought, it'd be a good way to prepare to take back New Attnam for the Tweraifians.
They obviously don't want to raise a fuss because the Attnamese could easily wipe them out but with enough CHA you might be able to convince them (and maybe give them equipment?) to start helping out when you launch the attack rather than having to go it solo.
Huang Ming Pong doesn't seem like he'd ever help unless you maybe gave him a humongous pile of food.
Although it might be abusable we could also make it that CHA has an impact on god relation gain/loss and prayer reset time.
They obviously don't want to raise a fuss because the Attnamese could easily wipe them out but with enough CHA you might be able to convince them (and maybe give them equipment?) to start helping out when you launch the attack rather than having to go it solo.
Huang Ming Pong doesn't seem like he'd ever help unless you maybe gave him a humongous pile of food.
Although it might be abusable we could also make it that CHA has an impact on god relation gain/loss and prayer reset time.
System would indicate in graphic if person is mounted on horse or not. Same system also show if person mounted on boar, elephant, polar bear etc. Or if person mounted on ass. Ivan find mounting on ass funny.
Oct 17, 2016, 3:07 pm
The Imperialist
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Maybe the "leader" effect should be based on the highest charisma of the person on their team.
May need to adjust the existing NPC charisma to make it work but:
Let's say Decos's is 25. If your charisma is 30+ then the slaves try to help (but most likely they will immediately panic and flee, unless you give them equipment). If your charisma is 40+ then some of his guards betray him.
Petrus's would need to be 50+
I'm not exactly sure how the teams work - is Tweraif a subset of the New Attnam team? Because attacking a slave will piss of Decos but attacking Decos will not piss off the slaves.
We may need to add some kind of "Loyalty" trait. That also makes things interesting because then maybe Petrus's wives are less loyal to him and would switch over to your side more quickly than his guard.
May need to adjust the existing NPC charisma to make it work but:
Let's say Decos's is 25. If your charisma is 30+ then the slaves try to help (but most likely they will immediately panic and flee, unless you give them equipment). If your charisma is 40+ then some of his guards betray him.
Petrus's would need to be 50+
I'm not exactly sure how the teams work - is Tweraif a subset of the New Attnam team? Because attacking a slave will piss of Decos but attacking Decos will not piss off the slaves.
We may need to add some kind of "Loyalty" trait. That also makes things interesting because then maybe Petrus's wives are less loyal to him and would switch over to your side more quickly than his guard.
Oct 17, 2016, 4:15 pm
Ex-Tyrant of the IVANers
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Occupation: Junior Scientist
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I have an alternative to dicking around with attributes to protect from magic: a Ring/Amulet/Armor/etc of Magic Resistance, which provides a flat percentile chance that you will be able to ignore hostile (non-elemental) spells.
Naturally, such an item would need to be exceedingly rare. Making it an amulet would also probably be the best bet, IMO, since then it wouldn't become a simple no-brainer item; you would have to trade life-saving for protection against magic.
Naturally, such an item would need to be exceedingly rare. Making it an amulet would also probably be the best bet, IMO, since then it wouldn't become a simple no-brainer item; you would have to trade life-saving for protection against magic.
"Put more stuff in the... thing where... more stuff goes in."
Oct 17, 2016, 4:19 pm
Scholar
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Occupation: Priestx of Sophos
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Something to be considered in the context of NPCs joining the player in revolt is that many of them (banana growers, levitating ostriches, patrol guard especially) have AI routines which interfere a huge amount with their ability to function as normal pets, and are prone to horrific meltdowns outside the map they call home.
Oct 17, 2016, 6:34 pm
Atavus
Joined: Dec 11, 2008
Posts: 1,770
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The map problem isn't really an issue if all they're going to do is fight the guards and not leave and follow the player around as pets.
System would indicate in graphic if person is mounted on horse or not. Same system also show if person mounted on boar, elephant, polar bear etc. Or if person mounted on ass. Ivan find mounting on ass funny.
Oct 17, 2016, 7:03 pm
The Imperialist
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Yeah, they shouldn't become pets.
I'm not sure if they should technically be on your team, or should just be removed from the New Attnam team and become hostile towards New Attnam.
This is all just me spewing ideas though, I'm not saying this is a priority or will be easy.
I'm fine with an amulet of magic resistance, but I think it should still be a bonus in addition to the ability to train it yourself (just like there's helms of perception, brilliance, etc.)
I'm not sure if they should technically be on your team, or should just be removed from the New Attnam team and become hostile towards New Attnam.
This is all just me spewing ideas though, I'm not saying this is a priority or will be easy.
I'm fine with an amulet of magic resistance, but I think it should still be a bonus in addition to the ability to train it yourself (just like there's helms of perception, brilliance, etc.)