Game Balance

May 28, 2014, 1:49 pm

#1

wolf

Joined: Feb 20, 2012
Posts: 231

What sort of things would be considered unbalanced/exploits that should be fixed?

//Wishable Ommel Cerumen/Library exploit/Banana exploit have been fixed

* Ommel hair/Phoenix feather/GEF limbs. (Capristo makes a good argument in favor of these; considering that balancing artificial
 limbs would likely be a large undertaking, they can probably remain as they are) 

* Free vodka in Attnam`s cellar. There are usually around 40 bottles, and you can sell them for an easy 
 500-600 gold early on. Taking the vodka ought to count as thievery and turn Attnam hostile, or at least have some guards down
 there who you have to kill (unbeknownst to the rest of Attnam) if you want the booze.

* Whips are indestructible. Along with their high attack speed and whips of thievery/chameleon whips,
 they`re easily one of the top tier weapon types. There are already broken whip graphics in item.pcx, 
 so they should be easy to implement.

* Sherarax (and Izzy) should not be tameable. Even though 50 TamingDifficulty seems high, it`s easy to
 achieve via PolyControl, and these two are far too powerful; they can both take 
 out Attnam single-handedly. Ur-Khan and Danny should also have higher taming thresholds.

May 28, 2014, 7:01 pm

#2

The town crier

Joined: Sep 22, 2008
Posts: 634

For .50, I can't really think of anything else balance-wise that would need fixing besides the elite guard/patrol guard taming and those mentioned above. Artificial limbs are really strong for how easily they're gotten, and the lack of natural healing isn't quite enough to balance it out. Maybe they should be made harder to get, like increasing the INT requirement for attached limbs? Or even better, forcing players to detach said limbs first before changing the material?

May 28, 2014, 10:22 pm

#3

The Imperialist

Joined: Dec 2, 2007
Location: New Attnam
Interests: bananas
Posts: 2,309

Hmm, I feel like the artificial limbs are fine. It makes it easier but even with those limbs it still requires strategy to beat Petrus, Sherry, and so on.

May 28, 2014, 11:58 pm

#4

wolf

Joined: Feb 20, 2012
Posts: 231

IMO most of them are alright (for example, the metal materials completely destroy your speed in exchange for the extra power), but the feather ones have incredibly high speed and strength, with no downside other than the lack of natural healing (which isn't really that detrimental, since with Phoenix Feather/GEF limbs you'll almost never get hit anyways).

I once loaded up an old save that was on GC4, decided to change all my limbs to ommel hair and just sprint downward and see how long I'd last. I ended up killing Elpuri and getting the freedom ending, with a very low score of around 80k. My armor was crappy, and I was wielding two +5 hand axes made of weak materials (iron or steel, I think). No victory should be that easy in IVAN.

May 29, 2014, 3:16 am

#5

archangel

Joined: Apr 2, 2014
Occupation: Navastating
Location: Aslona
Posts: 773

Maybe permanently gaining TeleControl and ESP?

I mean, TeleC is hugely useful and what's more, you really only need a single blink dog and he will summon more as you fight him, so you are nearly guaranteed to have at least three corpses after the fight. Floating eyes are not so much of a problem, but you can still SOCM a chest into floating eye flesh, cannot you?

I have to say I like that you can get those intrinsics permanently after right conditions, but it seems a bit too easy now.

The Library of Attnam

May 29, 2014, 7:01 am

#6

mutant ass

Joined: Feb 5, 2014
Occupation: Sysnet Tech Support
Location: Dublin, Ireland
Interests: Computers
Posts: 59

Destructible are the only real thing I've largely noticed after all the adventures I've had in the Ivan's.

Ivan's Still Alive and Kicking!

May 29, 2014, 11:26 am

#7

The Imperialist

Joined: Dec 2, 2007
Location: New Attnam
Interests: bananas
Posts: 2,309

Pent wrote

IMO most of them are alright (for example, the metal materials completely destroy your speed in exchange for the extra power), but the feather ones have incredibly high speed and strength, with no downside other than the lack of natural healing (which isn't really that detrimental, since with Phoenix Feather/GEF limbs you'll almost never get hit anyways).

I once loaded up an old save that was on GC4, decided to change all my limbs to ommel hair and just sprint downward and see how long I'd last. I ended up killing Elpuri and getting the freedom ending, with a very low score of around 80k. My armor was crappy, and I was wielding two +5 hand axes made of weak materials (iron or steel, I think). No victory should be that easy in IVAN.

Sure but you wouldn't be able to get those limbs so early in the game without going into wiz mode

I think that we've all been playing this game so long and know all the tricks that we forget how difficult it is for someone who's new.

I kind of like that there are some things like this that you can use to make the game easier, but still difficult, and of course later you can challenge yourself to go for a natural limb victory. Same with the permanent Telecontrol and ESP.

Also the Wiki / forum makes things much easier. I would have never figured out the permanent Telecontrol thing on my own.

May 29, 2014, 1:41 pm

#8

Master mine stomper

Joined: Dec 16, 2007
Occupation: Shoveling. But metal.
Location: Blazing in the steppes
Interests: Absolutely fuck-all.
Posts: 2,050

Would it be possible to make it impossible for the statuses to become permanent?

May 29, 2014, 1:51 pm

#9

wolf

Joined: Feb 20, 2012
Posts: 231

Ernomouse wrote

Would it be possible to make it impossible for the stats to become permanent?

Do you mean the statuses? Probably. Though at this point, I think it falls under the category of one of those bugs that becomes a feature because everyone likes it.

Cap, you make a great point about the artificial limbs. While they are fairly strong, to the point that many long-time players choose not to use them, they do provide newer players with a taste of power, which is nice. My first IVAN victory (in CLIVAN) was with PF limbs, after a year and a half of playing IVAN. And considering I've never had high enough INT to make GEF in a real game, I'm in no position to complain about its power.

May 29, 2014, 1:55 pm

#10

Master mine stomper

Joined: Dec 16, 2007
Occupation: Shoveling. But metal.
Location: Blazing in the steppes
Interests: Absolutely fuck-all.
Posts: 2,050

Yeah. Those.

May 30, 2014, 8:49 am

#11

archangel

Joined: Sep 8, 2010
Occupation: Petty Functionary
Location: Drinking pea soup in the world map
Interests: Mangoes
Posts: 1,216

Yeah the free vodka seems like it was partly finished. Put some guards down there and it will be all good for the time being, until the catacomb quest is fleshed out a bit more.

Batman? wrote

its been so long since i had gotten that far i didnt think it through. arrrr!!!!!!

Jun 1, 2014, 5:09 am

#12

archangel

Joined: Apr 2, 2014
Occupation: Navastating
Location: Aslona
Posts: 773

By the way, the shields need some balancing - they are simply useless for the player as of now, so they serve only the enemies who are generated with them.

I'd be for simply introducing shield bashes so that shields would become something like an unusual weapon class. This way, you could use them as any other weapon and bashing your opponents with two shield equipped sound cool to me.

For some variety, the Shields skill could roof the following:

Buckler - small, light, accurate but low damage
Shield - the normal kind
Spiked shield - smae as shield but higher damage

And for specials and artifacts:

Shield of Bashing - normal shield, but all bashes have a chance of knockback similar to kicking knockback
Blessed shield of the Phoenix is interesting enough in my eyes to be an artifact even in the vanilla - the only way to survive beheading, but it's rather easy to lose the limb before you are beheaded

And once again, what about transforming weeping blades into weeping axes so that Axes skill has a special weapon type?

The Library of Attnam

Jun 4, 2014, 1:39 pm

#13

blink dog

Joined: Dec 4, 2007
Posts: 184

I approve of shield bashing. Perhaps it could function replace the kick, when you have shields equipped.

Jun 5, 2014, 2:49 am

#14

archangel

Joined: Apr 2, 2014
Occupation: Navastating
Location: Aslona
Posts: 773

Zayre wrote

I approve of shield bashing. Perhaps it could function replace the kick, when you have shields equipped.

Probably not entirely, as you can kick down doors, but bashing them down with your whield sounds... strange.

I'd leave kicking as it is and simply add bashing as another attack, with the shield of bashing being simply an upgrade for those who forego two Neer Se-ulbs.

The Library of Attnam

Jun 5, 2014, 3:13 am

#15

Atavus

Joined: Dec 11, 2008
Posts: 1,770

I'd like to repeat my request that we be able to bash things like doors with whatever is in our hands rather than having to kick. This of course would include shields.

System would indicate in graphic if person is mounted on horse or not.
Same system also show if person mounted on boar, elephant, polar bear etc.
Or if person mounted on ass.
Ivan find mounting on ass funny.

Jun 5, 2014, 4:45 am

#16

mutant ass

Joined: Feb 5, 2014
Occupation: Sysnet Tech Support
Location: Dublin, Ireland
Interests: Computers
Posts: 59

maybe have bash like:

What would you like to bash with?
Kick(K) LStr
Punch(P) AStr
Weapon(W) AStr + weapon
which weapon (L) (R)? Left or right?
Item(I) item from inventory.

Item as in say plant a mine and throw something to detonate it?

Ivan's Still Alive and Kicking!

Jun 5, 2014, 9:45 am

#17

archangel

Joined: Apr 2, 2014
Occupation: Navastating
Location: Aslona
Posts: 773

EireMadHatter wrote

Weapon(W) AStr + weapon

(K)ick and (P)unch are nice, but for the weapons and such and for easiest interface, (A)ttack command would be better I think - you can select with what weapon/item and where to, even if you attacked thin air (this way, you could also attack your pet).

Also, chests should be possible to hack into wood sticks with your trusty axe.

The Library of Attnam

Jun 5, 2014, 2:26 pm

#18

The Imperialist

Joined: Dec 2, 2007
Location: New Attnam
Interests: bananas
Posts: 2,309

Shouldn't bashing be based on your body weight? When I hear the word I picture somebody throwing their entire body up against a door

Jun 6, 2014, 5:34 am

#19

mutant ass

Joined: Feb 5, 2014
Occupation: Sysnet Tech Support
Location: Dublin, Ireland
Interests: Computers
Posts: 59

capristo wrote

Shouldn't bashing be based on your body weight? When I hear the word I picture somebody throwing their entire body up against a door

*Chuckle*

CHARRGE!!!
*Smack*.....well that went pear shaped fast

Ivan's Still Alive and Kicking!

Jun 6, 2014, 12:06 pm

#20

Caped Crusader

Joined: Dec 17, 2007
Occupation: Taking Names, Formerly Kicking Ass
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 992

red_kangaroo wrote

Also, chests should be possible to hack into wood sticks with your trusty axe.

I would also suggest coming up with a use for the aforementioned sticks

Booooooooooo!

Jun 6, 2014, 12:35 pm

#21

Master mine stomper

Joined: Dec 16, 2007
Occupation: Shoveling. But metal.
Location: Blazing in the steppes
Interests: Absolutely fuck-all.
Posts: 2,050

Batman? wrote

I would also suggest coming up with a use for the aforementioned sticks

You can throw them at your enemies and die screaming. Everything comes down to screaming eventually.

Jun 6, 2014, 4:16 pm

#22

archangel

Joined: Apr 2, 2014
Occupation: Navastating
Location: Aslona
Posts: 773

Batman? wrote

I would also suggest coming up with a use for the aforementioned sticks

Take a stick and a stone, combine them into an arrow, shoot it with a bow.

The Library of Attnam

Jun 9, 2014, 4:59 am

#23

mutant ass

Joined: Feb 5, 2014
Occupation: Sysnet Tech Support
Location: Dublin, Ireland
Interests: Computers
Posts: 59

pickaxe + axe + wooden sticks...

erm....Punji pit!

Ivan's Still Alive and Kicking!

Jun 9, 2014, 6:56 am

#24

Master mine stomper

Joined: Dec 16, 2007
Occupation: Shoveling. But metal.
Location: Blazing in the steppes
Interests: Absolutely fuck-all.
Posts: 2,050

Someone needs to code in crafting first...