Dialog.txt and its role in development

Nov 21, 2013, 2:52 am
#1
Joined: Dec 11, 2008
Posts: 1,770
Putting this in Programming instead of Dev so everyone can see.
If you have not done so already, go read Dialog.txt now.
It is a "development log" of sorts heavily stylized as diary entries from the everyday life of "Ivan" (Head Graphics Designer Tuukka Virtaperko) and "The Leader" (Master Programmer Timo Kiviluoto) metaphorically detailing IVAN's development process whilst roleplaying as extremely stereotypical communists.

While it's a very entertaining read, it also brings to light a LOT of things about IVAN I did not know, along with ideas and things that have apparently vanished somewhere along the way to the current release such as flails, spawning mammoths, and having the player be able to swim or fall into pitfalls represented by a downward arrow similar to the levitation arrow.

What I'm getting at here is that Dialog.txt is a very good way to get a feel for IVAN's sense of humour as well as garner ideas the devs themselves wanted to implement - a good indicator of what we should be aiming for if we wish to stay faithful during our attempt at continuing development IMO.
It's also been very good for revealing tricks and details about certain in game entities, such as floating eyeballs not being able to put you to sleep if they cannot see you (i.e. invisibility or being in the dark).

There's a lot to read and a lot of ideas in there so I will be updating this thread later with what I consider to be relevant info.
It'd also be nice if someone who is still around on the forums from the old times could explain to me where all these nice features went to - especially the mounts mentioned near the start!

I've only read up to around line 1990 so far so perhaps that's explained later.
System would indicate in graphic if person is mounted on horse or not.
Same system also show if person mounted on boar, elephant, polar bear etc.
Or if person mounted on ass.
Ivan find mounting on ass funny.
Nov 21, 2013, 2:55 am
#2
Joined: Dec 11, 2008
Posts: 1,770
There's also Attributes.txt that sums up exactly what each stat does:

SPOILER ALERT. Click here to see text.
Iter Vehemens ad Necem attributes:

Arm strength - arms
-melee and weapon damage
-melee and weapon to hit value, slightly
Leg strength - legs
-kicking damage
-kick to hit value, sligthly
-carrying capacity
Endurance
-hp
-healing rate
Dexterity - arms
-melee and weapon to hit value
Agility - legs
-kick to hit value
-dodge value
Perception
-to hit value
-dodge value
Charisma
-shop prices
-pet handling (chance to charm a monster etc.)
Intelligence
-ability to cast wizard spells                   //clearly the player was meant to be able to cast spells
Wisdom
-ability to cast priest spells                   //but they didn't get around to implementing it? Maybe there's some remnants in the source?
-praying
Mana
-spell efficiency
-mana points


Mention of mounted combat can be found in my signature, and also here on lines 152-157:
Ivan make Cossack in human.pcx.
Then Ivan make mounted symbol in symbol.pcx. Like many items symbol.
Big leader guy then put symbol above Cossack.
Cossack laugh and ride to battle.
But if Cossack too drunk, Cossack fall off saddle.
Ivan make horse without Cossack in char.pcx, too.

Mention of floating eyeball behaviour is on lines 1933-1939:
Floating eyes annoy leader, too, so their hp now halved.
Nevertheless they still not very easy to kill.
Leader usually carry daggers and short swords and throw them at eyes.
Leader may also drop lantern and lead them to dark where he cant see them
and therefore not faint.
Gods may also help, and Dulcis be best.
It fun to see stupid monsters faint when gazing at pet eye.

Mammoths definitely once spawned, and were apparently the highest danger level spawn before a "dark wizard" was added in (Ischaldirh by the description)
Lines 1692-1698:
Now Party noticed IVAN players powerful enough encounter only mammoths.
This rather odd since they extinct.
Party need more deadly enemies.
Therefore Ivan add dark wizard to humanoid.pcx.
Ivan think of swedish teacher when drawning and result will certainly look
evil enough.
And of course, pointy hat be a must.

Mention of changing graphics for a swimming character or one in a pitfall as well as some apparently unused world map textures is here on lines 278-288:
Next Ivan make all remaining wilderness lterrain graphics:

base tile for snowy terrain
big rock
base tile for desert
base tile for swamp
boghole
dead tree

Btw. if humanoid sink in boghole, then perhaps we draw only his head.
The same could even apply to swimming people.

"Ivan" also has a large list of things he wanted in the Attnam map, some of which were implemented
Line 2717 onward:

SPOILER ALERT. Click here to see text.
Ivan finish suggestion of Attnam. Suggestion crude to say a least. Ivan 
should have millimetre paper or small square paper use. Too late. But 
lot of detail and new thing:

New:
Carpenter - construct items of wood
Apprentices - make -1 items for 1/3 or 1/2 of cost
Bakery - produce and sell bread. maintain stock of 50 bread
Healer - heals stuff
Bar - interesting people and beer in bar. lot of poor and tough and 
adventurous people.
Brewery - right next to the bar. contain hidden altar of Nefas where 
bartender sacrifice gold and beer! Five paid mercenary soldier guard 
brewery and shut up about altar.
Tomb of the unknown soldier - Guarded by two guard with fake mithril 
armour and wood sword. Guard line: "This is the Tomb of the Unknown 
Soldier! His name was Lamusius! Oops."
Apprentice priest - no fuction yet
Royal prison for trophy prisoners - Exotic prisoner collection of 
different race and species!
Obedience station - To keep all prisoner happy
Punisher - Ivan plan smiley face mask graphic for punisher
Garden - Nothing special but lot of plants
Training dummy - Can be mauled to keep up weapon skill
Entrance points - When entering, prompt: "From which direction do you 
want to enter (N,E,S,W)? South recommended."

Beds not included for every resident because in IVAN people no sleep 
unless they get bump in head.
In later version Attnam be several square big in world map, and there be 
suburb and homes and farm in these other square?
Oh, Ivan has forget windows on everywhere but garden. Leader add them as 
he wish.
If leader wish for a city wall, then one should include. However outside 
city wall must be enough space to use wand of fireballs and have 100 
gazillion super pets as allies.
It may be that city square size have to be increase a bit.
Lot of new graphic require. Ivan do some time.


"Leader" also has a lot of ideas and lore for Attnam
Line 2762 onward:

SPOILER ALERT. Click here to see text.
Ivan represent fine ideas.
Leader share some of his plans, too, and comment Ivans.
Attnam grow so large that it be bother for Petrus to decide everything.
After all, he must have enough time to use wives and dolphins, too.
He read 1984 and name four cardinals to aid in rule:
Cardinal of Truth, who responsible for propaganda.
Cardinal of Plenty, who responsible for tax collecting and treasury.
Cardinal of Peace, new title of Sir Galladon, who responsible for guards and
leading army to preemptive peacekeeping operations.
Cardinal of Love, who head of Inquisition.
Entrance to Cathedral can indeed be more more impressive, with tiled way
leading inside.
Red mat can as well be wider.
However Leader suggest Cathedral remain in frog shape.
This tradition after all.
Obedience station be constructed underground.
Cardinal of Love, two Inquisitors and a few law students
(this be their summer job) interrogate prisoners there.
Happy face mask brilliant idea for them all.
Trophy prisoners also kept safe on this floor.
This because in Ivan plan it too easy for clever enemy to drop kamikaze
dwarves from hot-air balloon so they explode wall and release prisoners.
Jail residents moved to ground level only on special occasions, for instance
to entertain foreign VIP visitors.
Guards quarters also underground.
Above ground level there another, smaller floor where Cardinal of Love place
four telepaths so intelligent they detect mind of every thought criminal in
town with their amulets of ESP.
They avoid brewery, of course, since Petrus like to occasionally enter it
incognito and examine Nefass mistress or two throughoutly.
"One must know ones enemy as well as himself" he explain if player
recognize him.
Since in future characters can avoid being telepathically detected by
wearing tin foil as helmet, giant floating eye placed on top floor as added
security measure.
It rotate all the time, its gaze penetrating all hidden corners of Attnam,
making enemies of Church despair.
Training dummies can be on back yard whose access be easier.
There also very hard wall against which prisoners condemned to capital
punishment be led.
There they shot by execution squad armed with wands of fireballs.
North of it be graveyard.
This be church after all.
There well kept graves of numerous world famous, powerful, just and
righteous Attnamese heroes who Cardinal of Truth invent.
There be also gravedigger named Ummah.
He genius mathematician who dig graves and play saxophone as hobby.
Tomb of unknown soldier there as well.


There's also a lot of fun stuff in there I didn't realise, such as Vlad the bunny's name is actually VLADIMIR, an acronym:
2005 It may be that Vladimir (Vile Lurking Agressive Devourer with Infernal 
2006 Muscles Intended to Rampage) look bit unclear.
System would indicate in graphic if person is mounted on horse or not.
Same system also show if person mounted on boar, elephant, polar bear etc.
Or if person mounted on ass.
Ivan find mounting on ass funny.
Nov 21, 2013, 3:40 am
#3
Master mine stomper


Joined: Dec 16, 2007
Occupation: Shoveling. But metal.
Location: Blazing in the steppes
Interests: Absolutely fuck-all.
Posts: 2,050
That is a holy grail of laughter. I must find time to look deeper into it.
Nov 21, 2013, 4:02 am
#4
Joined: Dec 11, 2008
Posts: 1,770
UT4 was made by an outsider known only as Corey
Lines 2239 and 2240:
Strange side dungeon added to UT by foreigner named Corey.
Many new bugs included.

Origins of Lobh-se come from when they added necromancers and thought the current spiders were too small
Lines 2344-2353:
Necromancer laugh diabolically as he finally free.
He begin collecting allies to spread havoc and terror amidst innocents.
First he descend into hideous cave of malevolent spider army.
But necromancer disappointed to see all spiders Ivan drawn small and puny.
They scare no one.
Ivan crossbreed tiny spider and Siberian tiger to create giant spider.
Then it mate with mammoth and baby become mighty 32x32 spider queen.
Both should be grown up and ready for rampage in char.pcx ere Monday dawn.
Ivan also have them spin sample webs in effect.pcx.
Necromancer then decide whether they worthy for his needs.

There's also explanations for other unused things in the graphics files
The factory has no good reason, other than making cars which are also in the graphics file. There's just a car, what I thought was a factory is actually a tank. Line 2374 onward:
Leader gave Ivan some nights to sleep.
If Ivan still near Novosibirsk he check its newest factory.
It make shiny Ladas for loyal soviet citizens.
Ivan park one in char.pcx so leader can check quality.
32x32, deadline 2.9.
And the dragon was made to apologise to the Leader, or was a request by him, line 77 onward:
Ivan make good graphics.
Big leader guy not mad anymore.
Big leader guy just and merciful.
But big leader guy still somewhat angry.
Ivan draw dragon for big leader guy. Scary. Char.pcx, 48x48 pixels.
Ivan be ready within 48 hours.
Then big leader guy content.

And this thing is meant to be a tank
Line 1797 onward:
CCCP road no CCCP road without tank.
Ivan draw one.
Char.pcx, size 32x32.
As always, there be slight shortage of materials and tools though.
Ivan only have steam engine and museum cannon to equip tank with.
Still leader trust Ivan conjure up great icon of Party glory.

And here's some stuff on the flail:
Line 1028 onward:
Next Ivan draw flail.
This be experimental weapon proposed by Party scientists.
Flail must have three separate heads.
Ivan use m-color 1 for handle and m-colors 2-4 for heads.
In game, some flails can be missing a head or two.
If so, colorize system replace heads m-color with transparent color.
More heads mean more damage.
There may also be magical heads that have special effects,
for instance fire damage or poisoning.
Party try this and see if its fun.
Line 1167 onward:
Leader had some fun whipping kulaks with flail Ivan made.
Flail had flaw and broke.
Ivan tidy up floor and put broken flail to item.pcx.
Leader also expressed wish that fail could have additional heads.
Therefore Ivan make also picture of single separate head.
Ivan finish work within 48 hours.

And some backstory on the tourists
Line 2390:
Leader must confess minor thing.
Ivan recall leader trip to Korea last summer.
One night leader drank vodka, played card game with Kim and lost.
Vladivostok and next years State budget, for instance.
Former not too bad as CCCP so mighty no one notice one city missing.
Latter however a problem.
Leader forced to allow some foreign visitors the privilege of walking on
holy CCCP soil.
First tourists be fat American couple, both equipped with expensive cameras
like in Nethack, and their 10 year old child.
They arrive on feFriday.
Ivan escort them to humanoid.pcx without delay and protect their wallets
with his life.
Party release them from the burden of evil capitalist money ASAP.
System would indicate in graphic if person is mounted on horse or not.
Same system also show if person mounted on boar, elephant, polar bear etc.
Or if person mounted on ass.
Ivan find mounting on ass funny.
Nov 21, 2013, 4:23 am
#5
Joined: Dec 2, 2007
Location: New Attnam
Interests: bananas
Posts: 2,309
This is amazing, great find! I'll have to sit down and read it over the weekend
Nov 21, 2013, 4:55 am
#6
Joined: Dec 11, 2008
Posts: 1,770
Origins of the Flamethrower and Sling graphics, line 2462 onward:
Leader has already formed alliances with several local Finno-Ugric native
tribes and gathered an army of many hundred men armed with state-of-the-art
sticks and stones, ready to take back Kreml at any moment.
However, some slight additional power could still prove handy.
This is where Ivan comes in the picture.
Leader taken over a small nearby oil deposit and want to use the liquid as
flame thrower fuel.
Ivan build a prototype for leader troops and put it in item.pcx.
To make victory absolutely certain, Ivan also add sling as a backup ranged
weapon.
Ivan ready in four days.

And here's some very interesting information on weapon types and their damage values,
Line 2523 onward:
Ivan perform damage with jolliness:

Point increases chance of critical hit by +50%
Cut and blunt damage simultaneous
Long weakens against small enemies and improves against large, short 
works inversely

POINT CUT BLUNT | ACCURACY DURABILITY BLOCK | special

Spear             P8 C0 B2 | A8 D1 Blo6 | long, 2hand, throw
Quarterstaff      P3 C0 B2 | A6 D1 Blo6 | long, 2hand
Bastard sword     P4 C6 B4 | A4 D7 Blo5 |
Short sword       P6 C4 B2 | A6 D8 Blo7 | short, 1hand
Longsword         P6 C5 B2 | A7 D6 Blo8 | 1hand
2-handed sword    P1 C7 B7 | A4 D6 Blo6 | long, 2hand
Axe               P0 C6 B5 | A2 D4 Blo4 |
Battle-axe        P0 C7 B6 | A4 D6 Blo5 |
Halberd           P7 C8 B8 | A4 D4 Blo5 | long, 2hand
Poleaxe           P0 C8 B8 | A4 D4 Blo4 | long, 2hand
Mace              P0 C0 B6 | A4 D4 Blo5 |
Dagger            P6 C2 B0 | A8 D2 Blo1 | short, 1hand
As Chaostrom has mentioned to me, these values might not have been actually implemented and rather were just an idea. There isn't any other information around that section of dialog.txt to confirm or deny this.

"Origins" of the atomic bomb (actually a "thaumic bomb") graphic and dwarven gas grenades, line 2910 onward:
After a rather exciting round of Twister Leader ask if they could invest a
bit to Leader plan of retaliation against Goldstein.
Osama scratch his masculine beard and say perhaps he indeed can fund Party
with $100 million.
It gift between friends so he want nothing in return.
But 60 megaton Tsar Bomba or two would naturally make money appear sooner in
Leader Swiss account.
Unfortunately all these in enemy hands now.
Leader recall Ivan unemployed so he have time to arrange one.
Ivan just infiltrate the appropriate nuclear facility and smuggle bomb to
item.pcx.
To identify the toy, Leader provide crypted description at

http://a25a.mtalo.ton.tut.fi/wiki/index.php/Item_ideas#Misc

under the codename 'thaumic bomb'.
As additional recreational task Ivan design gas grenade in same file.
This can be loaded with eg. sleeping, mustard or tear gas.
Ivan has one week to fulfill duties.
Then Leader has next strategic meeting with his muslim allies and their
harems and Leader want to suprise all with some laughing gas grenades to
provide proper mood for negotiations.

Also on gas grenades: you were meant to be able to fill them up yourself.
Line 3010 onward:
A note on gas grenades: Ivan make deflated and inflated graphic versions 
of the device, so that user can pick desired gas type from the filling 
station himself.

Ivan had a grand (and likely impossible) idea to allow team formations.
Line 3078 onward:
Team Formations:
Teams members can be arranged to formations. A dialog window opens, and
in the window there is a matrix in which you can pick team members from
a list and place them on it.

Example: (j and x are some monsters, @ is player)

-----------------------
| | | | | | | | | | | |
-----------------------
| | | | | | | | | | | |
-----------------------
| | | |x|j|x| | | | | |
-----------------------
| | |x|j|@|j|x| | | | |
-----------------------
| | | |x|j|x| | | | | |
-----------------------
| | | | | | | | | | | |
-----------------------
| | | | | | | | | | | |
-----------------------

Team members will attempt to create the formation whenever the enviroment
permits it. This means they will also attempt to copy players movements.
Formation can be set to modes Strict (members try to stick in formation
no matter what) or Loose (members will help each other in combat etc.).
Perhaps the function would also require a certain INT from the members,
otherwise it could not be performed. It might also require a certain INT
from the player, and maybe higher INT would increase the maximum allowed
size of the matrix?
On the side of the dialog window there could be following buttons:
Rotate formation 90 degrees to left
Rotate formation 90 degrees to right
Mirror formation (left/right)
Flip formation (up/down)
The function would be of importance, because having and controlling a team
is essential in the harder levels of the game.
Perhaps there could also be an Allow team rotation -switch, which, if set,
would allow the team to try to adjust to the environment by rotating,
mirroring or flipping itself.

And finally, a description of a planned monster known as a "Groke"
Line 3408 onward:
A frightful monster has been pestering our village recently.
It appears from the mountains, freezes everything it touches, extinguishes
all fires by sitting on them, and according to legends is bound to the name
Groke.
I will quote its description from an ancient text:

'On tienoo äkkiä niin hiljainen ja musta ja mörkö niin kuin vuori tuijottaa,
ja jäinen maa on täynnä kammotusta, kun kuustakin pois värit putoaa. Ja
Nyyti sanoi: helppoa ei tule olemaan!'

Slay the beast, skin and stuff it and bring its body to character.pcx!"
Leader sighs and whispers something briefly to Ivan.
Ivan opens his backpack, takes his AK-47, rocket launcher, flame thrower,
grenade collection, gas mask, armour, etc. etc. out of it.
Swiftly he equips everything and strides to the door.
Before disappearing in the refreshing Himalayan outdoor air he turns and
states his grave farewell:
"Ivan ready to hunt."
Google translated as:
Quote
There is a junction suddenly so quiet and the black bogeyman, and then stare at the mountain,
and the icy earth is full of kammotusta when kuustakin off the colors of fall. and
Nyyti said, is not going to be easy

I'm going to assume the Groke is one of these two things in char.pcx that are present in the CVS version but not 0.50:
Right, so Google revealed to me that it's the thing on the left from Moomin fame. No idea what the thing on the right is.

It's worth noting that both the Groke and the Hattifatteners are from Moomin, which is made by a Swedish-Finn author, and that the original IVAN devs were Finnish, so these were likely put in as homages to their Finnish heritage. Well, apart from the fact that they make for good and varied monsters. That too.

That's the last entry before something uninteresting concerning colours at the end of the document, dated 12 April 2005.
System would indicate in graphic if person is mounted on horse or not.
Same system also show if person mounted on boar, elephant, polar bear etc.
Or if person mounted on ass.
Ivan find mounting on ass funny.
Nov 21, 2013, 9:58 am
#7
Master mine stomper


Joined: Dec 16, 2007
Occupation: Shoveling. But metal.
Location: Blazing in the steppes
Interests: Absolutely fuck-all.
Posts: 2,050
Leader also desire inhandspics of all weapons smashed to pieces.
Of course, it Party propaganda council tradition to erase everything broken
from official CCCP photographs.
But player can be capitalist arse, too, so there no need to hide lousy gear.
Also head with gas mask required.
Leader like walking incognito on streets wearing mask and scaring children.
Ivan draw pics in humanoid.pcx during this week.

I liek it! IVAN should ask the player if he is a communist or a filthy capitalist arse... If a commie, oppressed people would hail you as a liberator, and the charachter would never appear to be wielding broken equipment. If you replied capitalist, everyone would hate your guts and the weapons would appear broken as usual... The changes could be only cosmetic, or then game changing... For example, we could treat them as difficulty levels. Communist stands for Easy and Capitalist for Hard!

The possibilities are endless!
Nov 21, 2013, 12:30 pm
#8
Joined: Sep 8, 2010
Occupation: Petty Functionary
Location: Drinking pea soup in the world map
Interests: Mangoes
Posts: 1,216
Ha dialogue.txt. Good to see you found it I haven't read it from top to bottom, but what I have read of it I have found very guiding. Definitely recommended reading for those seeking to further develop things.
Batman? wrote
its been so long since i had gotten that far i didnt think it through. arrrr!!!!!!
Nov 22, 2013, 1:16 am
#9
Joined: Dec 3, 2007
Occupation: Chaos Weaver
Location: Standing between all life and death
Posts: 2,898
About the damage types, I must clarify.

When we had a development discussion during IVANcon, the idea was brought up and Kahvi explicitly stated that it was something that was planned, but not implemented. Therefore, I am not sure that the weapon info attached to it is something that is actually in-game, or just planned.
Uchuudonge wrote
creating stable chaos
making patterns where there should be none
sewing order into the chaos
you spit in the face of random numbers, of chaos
Jump to