Miscellaneous questions and first meeting with Sherarax

I've been playing for a month or two, and many questions have come to mind. I've read a majority of the forum and the wiki, but many of these questions remain unanswered. It's a diverse bunch of questions, covering many different topics, which I'll list here.

Also, I ran into Sherarax for the first time last night. I had just slain Elpuri (I was amazed at how little trouble I had with him in melee), and this time I wanted to go further into the dungeons because last time I opted for the freedom ending. I went upstairs to manage my inventory and do some sci-talking with my mystic dark frog, when she shows up. I slowed her, and planted a bear trap, and she got a turn on me, but didn't do any damage. I decided to melee her once, which killed her, but she was saved by her amulet. I'm pretty sure she was weakened from fighting vlad outside of my vision, because she was covered with glowing blood. I decided to melee her again, perhaps too confident from my last action, and with her retaliating attack her chameleon whip poly'd me into a slate golem. At this point I knew it was the end, not even my AoLS could save me (I don't think golems can wear amulets). The same turn all of my limbs were severed. I spent my next action praying to Sophos, hoping to get teleported away, but he just gave me an ommel cerumen arm, which sherry quickly severed before finishing me off ("killed by Sherarax's dirty attack below the belt" - never saw that message before, gave me a good laugh). This brings me to my first question.

1. What is the general boss strategy in IVAN? After a certain point, it seems like most spawned enemies don't give me much trouble, unless they are spawned with great equipment. The biggest danger is when a boss spawns. This game in particular, I didn't have any problems with any of the bosses (and I met all of them except for Ischaldirh and Oree) except for Golgor Dahn and Sherarax. What is the best way for dealing with these pests? I'll usually slow them down and haste myself first. With Golgor Dahn I kept laying down bear traps and blasting him with wands 'til I was out charges, when I reluctantly closed in to finish him off. I was planning something similar with sherry but I had no more offensive wands so I was going to have to deal with her in melee or run.

2. What is the damage value of the fire damage added by a flaming sword? I know it's nice because the flaming damage always goes through, but what is it's magnitude? I had to make a choice between my flaming mithril long sword and Golgor Dahn's sapphire two-handed scimitar, but I'm not sure which was actually better.

3. What is the best way to detect secret rooms? Usually the chests within have some prime loot, so I definitely don't want to miss any. The wiki says to detect material mithril, but I believe I've seen other material chests before (adamant I remember, perhaps some others), although I don't remember if that was actually in a secret room or the more obvious hidden rooms. Last game I started digging into all of the possible spots that one might be.

4. Is there a good way to heal pets? I've thrown healing potions at my pets before, so they were covered in healing liquid, but is there a better way?

5. Is there a way to clean off your equipment? I've had bottles of healing liquid break in my inventory, coating my weapons so that they heal my enemies.

6. How much better is a strongbox than a small chest to keep in your inventory? I think they're the same weight, but, if I remember correctly, the small chest can carry more items. I'm not sure because the last few games I've just been using strong boxes, but sometimes I'll take two with me because one fills up. I've never had anything inside of either break.

7. What's the deal with Ischaldirh? The wiki says he's one bad mofo, but sherry is something to fear more because she actually spawns. It mentioned something about Ischaldirh bear hunting. Does he only spawn under certain circumstances, or is he located in a specific room or what?

8. What is good god/prayer strategy, and what are the more useful gods? Lately I've been praying to Atavus and Loricatus every three hours. Atavus in hopes of the arcanite plate mail, which I'm actually going to stop doing because I can usually get armor at least as good as it by the time he gifts it anyways, and he's never done anything else useful for me (always "nothing happens", except once I got a chest that had nothing useful in it). Loricatus I always wield something hoping he'll harden it, but I've never gotten him to harden anything past what I could do myself. He's still very useful later on when my equipment begins to break more often and repair scrolls become more rare. I also use Dulcis whenever I come across a master necro or a mystic dark frog to get a pet. The others I only use very infrequently (Silva if I need a limb, etc.). I have a feeling I should take more advantage of (arch)angels when I'm fighting bosses. Also, what's the best way to be on good terms with Valpurus/Mortifer, since their weapons look well worth it? If you find an altar, sacrificing is obvious, but you don't always find one. Is it best to pray with Legifer/Cruentus until the Valpurus/Mortifer like you?

9. Is there anything I should know about what lies below GC9? I haven't been down there yet and I haven't been able to find any information on it. Should I take any extra precautions or preparations? I'm not sure what to expect.

Well that was much lengthier than I had thought it would be, but these questions have been on my mind for a while. Also, I only play vanilla IVAN right now, no CVS/LIVAN/other variants. Thanks for taking the time to read and answer my questions!

//ADDED THE NUMBERS TO THEM QUESTIONS FOR EASE OF ANSWERING// -Em

So I edited your post a bit, in exchange I'll answer what I can. Don't panic, nothing's wrong with it, I just wanted it clearer. And I haven't been honing my moderator skills in a long, long time...

4. I've never bothered to heal them, usually my only pet is the dog who is eaten pretty quickly after I stop needing help against hedgehogs... Attacking them with potion covered weapons works, but that also makes them angry. How about potion covered traps?

5. There is no way to clean them, but you can replace the stains with something else, like poison... Always keep your potions, wands and other brittle items in a box, and can your potions if possible. (In case you didn't know how to, dip the empty can into a bottle)

6. Strongbox is stronger, but it gets full with just a few wands and potions. There aren't many opponents that can actually break stuff inside boxes, so you're pretty safe with a small chest.

7. Izzy is a nightmare because he'll kill you by magic before you can even see him. I haven't had the fortune to meet him, or Sherry, or Golgor, or Xinroch... Yeah, I'm no power gamer. =P

8. The gods are handled in some thread here, don't remember which. If you can't find the altar you want, you can always try to polymorph one. Loricatus uses your int for the hardening, so you can't get valpurium stuff without the int to do so anyways.

Thanks for answering the questions you could, and also for adding some organization to my post. It hadn't crossed my mind, but that will make it much easier to answer my questions.

On the gods question, I already know what they all do, but the majority of them don't seem very worthwhile to me. I'm just looking for practical ways to use them because I feel like I should be getting more out of them. I guess I'm looking to learn how you guys tend to use them from your experience. Also, is this the thread you mentioned? BDR makes a post detailing the gods, and sparks a discussion on it. I've read through it. Good stuff. It actually mentions in there that Lori will harden material regardless of int, and that isn't corrected, so that's why I thought otherwise.

Also, another quick question.

10. I've had vlad tamed twice, and the first time he followed me down to GC9, the other time I could not get him down no matter how I tried. Is there a reason he wouldn't follow me? My hypothesis is that he wouldn't follow me until he healed more, but then sherry came in and ended the game while I was letting him heal (he had ~1000/3000HP).

You never forget the first time.

1. You probably know about the "s" method already. Here's what I think: Becuase bosses are leveled I think you should flee them when you first find them and then fight them later when you have the ability to beat them. Though my general rule of thumb is if you don't have to kill them dont try. Have an archangel kill them if you're lucky enough to get one.

2. I think it's only 1 regardless of enchantment.

3.Look around for walls that you cant find the doors to. If it's not next to the tunnel then I have no clue.

4. Allow them to consume valuables and drop the potion on the floor.

5. The only things I can think of is to wait a while until they evaporate or stab something until it comes off.

6. Strong boxes protect items inside them better. Don't put potions in chests or strong boxes. Put potions that are important in cans. Dont carry around important books with you(read them or store them somewhere else). Scrolls and wands dont take up much space and you can keep just about as many as you want in a strongbox. I would only carry a chest if I couldn't find a strongbox.

7: It's not really a question about who's worse. Their both very bad. He will appear if you have a really high danger level I think. Unless you get really unlucky I think should appear after sherarax. Guess why most people dont get to meet him. Oh, and also he is invisible and teleports away when you get close.

8. If you can find 2 books of Atavus early game then you're golden. The most useful gods IMO: Ducilis(Her music is really useful), Loricatus(you get stronger armor in early game and repair scrolls in late game), Cruentus(potions are REALLY useful), and of course any of the gods that can get you fed. Other gods are situational, so they can either save your life or just get you in a deeper pile of shit.

9. I heard Ischaldirh tends to spawn there. Also take every precation and preparation possible. You know how some games have those optional "hell levels?" Well these are IVANs hell levels, so you can imagine. I once got down there in LIVAN(I haven't even bothered in.50), and it's tough. You got a lot of mages down there and high value material golems. Prepare for lost limbs, lost weapons, and lost lives.

10. I don't really know. Im not sure if Vlad has infared vision, so if your invisible that might be a problem. Though 4 tile monsters tend to be kind of weird in general.

1. Is covered fairly comprehensively, especially by Slob, but you've got the right idea.

2. It's not just 1, there's a formula for it, but I don't remember it.

3. Secret rooms will always have traps. Search for iron, that'll reveal every mine there is. They'll often have octiron beartraps too, though sometimes it's mithril or adamant.

4. If they have a "Consume valuables" you can turn that on and drop a potion nearby. Make sure to turn it back off though.

5. Unfortunately there isn't. You can mix it up with poisons and acids to counter-act the healing, but the best way is just plain don't break 'em. You'll be wanting to transfer useful fluids into empty cans to preserve them.

6. Strongboxes are the best, but they also holds the least. If you have good enough protection regular chests should be good enough though.

7. Izzy is one bad mofo. There's a reason you haven't seen him yet, and believe me, you don't want to. I've once set him loose in Attnam using wizard mode and he wiped out the entire town on his own, something Sherry has difficulty accomplishing. *Hint: never generate a level while polymorphed into a tank (bears, golems, etc)*

8. If you think secret rooms are good, Atavus is even better! Of course, he rarely provides, but the gods around him are useful enough that you want to pray to him too. As to usefulness, they all have value depending on your playing style.

9. Crystal walls, narrow corridors, lots of nasty spawns! Somewhere down there is a mage/golem room. Beware.

10. No idea. I've once had that problem myself. If he doesn't follow you, there's no helping it. Unless you really want him to come along, then I suppose you can try polymorphing him.

9. Let's put it this way. Up to GC9, the game is relatively easy when you get a good run. From GC10 onwards, I've always either run out of potions, teleportation wands and scrolls or run into Sherry's chameleon whip.

The random ruby golems blocking the way when running from her doesn't help either. The place is tough.

10. Most likely you were invisible, as Vlad doesn't have any kind of invisibility detection.

2: If you'd asked me 4 years ago, I would have been able to bring up the relevant code. Flaming weapon damage, while triggered by script, is handled by code. I want to say it's something like 1d6, with some modifier for weapon enchantment...

7: The bear-hunting comment is a reference to his hitpoint threshold. As I recall some of the higher-level named baddies (As I recall the devs called them "grudge monsters") have multiple spawning triggers, one relating to danger level and another relating to ingame time and max HP. Bears, having huge amounts of HP, usually trigger this second part.

8: Mellis is also a very useful god. He fills empty bottles and cans in your inventory (up to 5 of each IIRC) with random food/drink -- which means even ommel substances are possible (if highly rare). Loricatus you mentioned; his hardening is limited to the iron material chain, and behaves similarly to a scroll of hardening, including drawing off your own INT. Cleptia is amazingly handy, granting haste and invisibility at the cost of only a prayer, and Seges makes food pretty much a non-concern for the rest of the game. On Valpurus and Mortifer, one Vapurian altar is guaranteed in Attnam, so you can make sacrifices there if you like. Otherwise you'll have to get lucky, or polymorph another god's altar. Also, Mortifer's gifts are probably more useful than Valpurus', since by itself a valpurium 2h sword isn't all that great. Not to mention that two Neerc se'Ulb can (with difficulty) be used simultaneously to great effect -- something that can't be said about two valpurium shields.

Thanks for the great answers everyone! I've already adapted my gameplay with this newfound knowledge and I'm already seeing improvements.

7: He can spawn anywhere, even in UT4.

8: I always start with God-Frog. Valp is good only for Valpurium blade, but it is a GREAT asset. It's the best sword aside from justifier you can obtain without SoCM. After that I usually switch to Mellis for Ommel Cerumen and other Ommel stuff.

9: Those levels are insane masochistic hell. They have non-standard proportions (long and narrow). Walls there are glass-like, so enemies can see you from their maximum perception range. That is bad, so use wand of door creation to provide yourself cosy spot for healing/reading. All walls are made of precious stuff, so rage-sacrifice every piece you can to any god you can - more angels for you, more targets for enemies. Mage room is the hardest challange in game, in comparision to that Izzy is easy. Keep some Acid Rain wands until CG9. Release the acidious furry from safe (MAXIMUM AVALIABLE!) distance by throwing wands against mage room octiron wall. If you find yourself unagle to brake wand by throwing (AStr too low or something) use SoCM to transform the wand into banana flesh or similiar material. If you can't get a clear shot/throw use striking/fireball wands to clear walls (never do that with pickaxe - that would mean getting closer and thus dying in a voilent way). You can also try throwing some backpacks in the room and fusing them with fireball. Mage pets will also help a bit, but they tend to get killed there easly. If your AGI is around 120 and you have PolyControl+TeleControl+haste+ESP with good elemental protection (+9 up) you can try melle attempt - it worked for me twice, but only in .50 when I had Healing potions. One level made of arcanite earth and octiron walls will be full of kamikaze dwarfs. Not really a problem, unless they chain-blow, avoid hoarding them. In Orr's Lair ignore golems and knights - deal with mages and frogs first by teleporting next to them and raping their guts with cold steel. Lair is almost impossible without levitation belt 'cause it's filled with blood you can't swim in. You might also want to try dragging Ennear Beast corpse around and reviving him in each level while polymorphed into something tought.

7. Ischaldirh has the following inherent properties:

60 Intelligence
Invisibility
Infravision
ESP
Telecontrol

His spells, which can be cast on anything he can see (which is basically everything thanks to the 60 Int, ESP and Infravision):

Fireball
Disenchantment (after several of these your +3 sword is now -2)
Teleport (self or enemy)
Clone/Mirror (I believe it is some form of cloning, because I have never seen the result suffer the timeout pains of mirrors, but this evil copy of yourself shares not just stats but also equipment at time of cloning/mirroring - it could also be a superior form of cloning that copies equipment and stats in a permanent fashion)
Striking
Haste
Slow

Did I mention his equipment?

phoenix feather cloak +5
arcanite chain mail +5
angel hair belt +5
octiron quarterstaff +6
dragon hide boots +5

(this list of reasons to not ever try to challenge Izzy if you can help it may or may not be complete - not like it's likely to matter for reasons covered in previous posts [as in the "bear hunting" related explanations])

Addendum: May possess some inherent means of casting faster than his 12 AGI would seem to permit (and another reported spell is Golem Creation - he apparently specializes in arcanite and octiron varieties).

He can't cast on invisible mindless creatures at all.

Fix'd

That seems insignificant at first glance, but upon further thought, how viable of a strategy would it be to polymorph into a golem (light crystal or valpurium? I'm not sure what the best golem material is), make yourself invisible, and blast him with wands?

I cant think of any monsters that are mindless and warm-blooded in the game.

I tried evading him in wizard mode as a skeleton in the past. He makes no big movements if he cant see you. After testing in wizard mode it seems as though no wand works well against him. You dont really need to use wands if you can become a valpurium golem though, he's a total wimp. Though other materials can also work. Mithril can do it with some difficulty. Nothing below that would work. Light crystal doesn't come even close. If you have a scroll of repair it would probably help. Make sure to corner him and use scrolls of detect material to track him.

You would still have to know where he is, have a clear shot at him, and pursue him if he teleports away at any point.

fake edit: I tested a wand of striking and a wand of lightning (and inadvertently fireballs too) on Izzy - the wand of lightning produced "He is not hurt" messages, whereas the wand of striking appeared to do significant damage to him. I was near him when he decided to set off a magical explosion, and so he got hurt in the blast too, but the key part of that explosion was the breaking of one piece of his equipment - my next Izzy spawn didn't go down in 3 shots of striking, very likely because none of his equipment broke (in fact, even after breaking two wands of striking right next to him he had only gone down to 41 of 100 HP). So on top of the above, you also have to either break his equipment with explosives or be able to break a few wands on him/next to him. I tried wands of fireballs directly after the first test, only to find the strange result that it appeared to have next to no effect on his HP.

He wont teleport away if he can't see you. At least that's what I've seen.

Just smack him around until he drops, it seems a lot more efficient than using wands to me.

(note: I missed some of your posts, cow)

Skeleton at range definitely works. Although as far as your comment about valpurium golems, you need 90 intelligence to poly into that at will, and it takes 44 to become a mithril golem (55 to become a spider silk golem and so rid yourself of the need to use a wand of invis on yourself after polymorphing). If you have that much intelligence in a non-wizmode game you have sorta won already given enough SOCMs and there's not a ton of point to killing Izzy even if he does carry a scroll of wishing on him (outside of him maybe spawning on the same level as say, Oree/Elpuri, but honestly you could just kill them and leave Izzy behind).

yeah. 44 int is a bit much. Petrus only has 40. I just thought that chances are that when he spawns you would already be pretty far along.

Oh right, I hadn't considered the intelligence requirements. Controlled polymorphing is something I've only done a handful of times.

I've got a fresh question for you guys.

Today I was playing and I made it down to Oree's lair. Oree was surprisingly easy to defeat. I laid out a few bear traps for him, and while he was working his way through those I blasted him with wands. It only took two lightning blasts and three or four zaps of striking to finish him off. Unfortunately I died shortly after (i had a lot of wands in my inventory and a mage blew them to pieces, inflicting a TON of damage to me), but not before noticing that there were two portals, one silver, one gold.

Now I assume that they are both one-way, like the other portals, so my question is, where does each one take you and what are the options from there? All of the endings that I know of involve items that I already had, and returning to Attnam.

Only one of the portals works; it takes you back to GC1.

Congratulations on getting Oree down, though.

Indeed. Now, judging from your death, I presume you ran past the mage/golem room and didn't deal with the mages on Oree's level first?

I definitely skipped the mage/golem room. I'm not sure where/what that is, but I did see a room with a few mages on the level above Oree. I had already found the portal to Oree's lair and I figured I had nothing to gain from exploring the entire level so I just left when I saw the mages (there were two mages and two necros in a room).

On Oree's level, I dealt with all of the mages that I could see by teleporting adjacent to them and quickly slaying them in melee. I killed a handful of them before I spotted Oree and he started chasing me. At this point I was a safe distance from any remaining mages, and I wasn't aware of any others. I wasn't bother by any mages while fighting Oree and wasting time by the portals.

The problem was that when I entered Oree's lair I had brought my stash, a huge pile of items, mostly scrolls and wands. I dropped it all on the floor and teleported myself out of the entrance room, over to the first mage I saw. In doing this I had accidentally scattered my loot all over the level. After killing Oree, I wanted to take on Petrus, so I started gathering the useful parts of my stash from around the level. I must've had a lot of wands on me when the first mage blasted me because I was asked where I wanted to teleport about 15 times, and the offensive wands blowing up did enough damage to kill me once (thank you AoLS), and also blow off my arm, which was wielding Saal'Thul. This happened while my inventory was still being destroyed, and later on the same turn another wand of teleport blew up and sent Saal'Thul across the level. I used a scroll of detect material to find it, teleported over to it, but another mage was in range and blasted me before I could grab it, setting off another chain reaction with the few remaining wands in my inventory, killing me for good.



From now on I'll be keeping my spare items stash stowed away in a chest. I was actually already planning on doing that after that game anyways just for convenience of moving it, but now I have a better reason.

No, if you only saw 4 of them that wasn't it. Izzy is more than a match for any handful of mages, but the reason the mage room is so dangerous is because there's about 20 of the bastards in there and through sheer numbers they can cast more than Izzy. It's also locked with an octiron door, so there's no chance in hell you're getting in without being hit by 100 spells. You did good in taking out the mages first on Oree's level though.

By the sounds of it, I'm glad I missed the party. Is it on one of the level made of crystal, or the arcanite one?

I cleared the mage room a couple of times and although its really hard its not impossible. After some time the mages in there start getting out of the room, what you need to do is stay directly in front of the door but as far as you can. Having 90+ int and ESP helps a LOT as you can see them from a long distance, although is not essential. You now proceed to zap striking, lightning and fireball wands to them and they will start dying, you should be invisible though, otherwise zombies will be bothering between you and them. If you are highly damaged you should run and heal.

Now, I didn't thought wands had so much range, but they do if they don't hit something on the way.

About Ischaldirh, you need to have 90 or so int, ESP and telecontrol, then you teleport by his side and strike him. I've done this and he teleportedd away once after my first hit, then I teleportedd again by his side and killed him.

Of course the problem here is to get 50 int and wis to talk to dolphins, which requires a lot of time sci talking with every possible monster. My favourite: giant dark frogs, and here's why...

It seems there is a moment in which your danger level makes their spawning quite frequent, and as sci-talking with them grants one or two points of int/wis you should take advantage of this. Having Atavus by your side or a lyre of charm (the more you have the better, as they have individual cooling rates of 6 hours after succesful tamings) is key to this. Maybe it was only my personal experience, but I suspect that succesful taming has something to do with alignment: when I was chaotic and tamed giant dark frogs via lyres of charm they never failed, but with a lawful char Atavus' song and lyres (IIRC) failed quite frequently. Anyway, that's the way it worked for me most of the times.

To kill the rest of the named baddies you need to have good equipment (specially good weapons), be hasted, slow them, and have a decent agi around 25 (not too difficult to get with enchanted agi boots). Then you can do the 's' trick, which works perfectly even with Sherrarax. It's always better to melee these guys so you don't harm their equipment (Ur-Khan's bottles of ommel urine or Golgor Dhan's scrolls).

Also, it's very important that you either tame or resurrect the two mystic dark frogs you find before the portal, then lock them in a small room or dig a tiny room (two tiles) and zap a wand of door creation. In this way you protect them from other monsters. Now, being around them for some time and recieving their spells will eventually grant you perma haste and perma invisibility which are really really useful past the portal. You are faster, and you can avoid many monsters this way. Note that you should do this before entering the portal as the chances they will survive there are lower, and so are yours.

Hope it helps!