Stat/training related question

I've been wondering: if it takes you longer to raise a particular stat, does it also take you longer for it to drop? In other words, is there a single value for when your stat gets raised (when the value increases) or when it drops (when the value decreases), or are the dropping/raising values stored separately?

I guess this could be checked, with agility easiest (first running around and then sitting around), but I don't really have the time right now...

Also, if I may throw in one more question: Does using weapons such as whip of thievery or Turox change your alignment, or do their effects just depend on how close you are to an associated god?

Also, as an unrelated bonus:



Kids these days...

1) This would need checking.

2) Some weapons do alter your alignment, others are dependent on favor, still others act completely separate from the alignment system. Neerc se'Ulb draws your alignment towards the chaotic (note this doesn't directly affect favor). I believe Mjolak does the same. The two magical whips are dependent on Cleptia and Scabies' favor. Everything else, as I recall at least, has a more-or-less set effect.

I feel as though I'm missing something here...

I don't think so, based on an obserbation that when You have for example 30 Agi and eat a holy banana, it drops real fast from the overfeeding.

DEX on the other hand, drops slowly both when at 10 and 50. Perhaps it's really a delicate difference.

Here are some tests I did for one character. The number on the left indicates the new value of Agility, then to the right: time it struck this value, and how much time it elapsed before raising it (running around the world map) or abusing it (resting in New Attnam). There are some snack breaks I didn't count.

12 - 1/12:00
13 - 1/12:40 - 0:40 to raise from 12 to 13
12 - 1/22:05 - 9:25 to drop from 13 to 12
13 - 1/22:35 - 0:30 to raise from 12 to 13
12 - 2/9:35 - 11:00 to drop from 13 to 12
13 - 2/4:50 - 0:15 to raise from 12 to 13
12 - 2/11:20 - 6:30 to drop from 13 to 12
12 - 2/16:20 - 5:00 extra rest
13 - 2/16:55 - 0:35 to raise from 12 to 13
14 - 2/19:05 - 2:10 to raise from 13 to 14
15 - 3/4:05 - 9:00 to raise from 14 to 15
16 - 3/6:50 - 2:45 to raise from 15 to 16
17 - 3/10:15 - 3:25 to raise from 16 to 17
16 - 3/12:20 - 3:05 to drop from 17 to 16
17 - 3/12:45 - 0:25 to raise from 16 to 17
18 - 3/16:45 - 4:00 to raise from 17 to 18
19 - 3/21:35 - 4:50 to raise from 18 to 19
20 - 4/5:00 - 8:25 to raise from 19 to 20
19 - 4/7:55 - 2:55 to drop from 20 to 19
20 - 4/9:35 - 1:40 to raise from 19 to 20
21 - 4/22:45 - 13:10 to raise from 20 to 21
20 - 5/1:45 - 3:00 to drop from 21 to 20
19 - 5/13:30 -11:45 to drop from 20 to 19
18 - 6/1:00 -11:30 to drop from 19 to 18

It seems that:

1. Once a stat drops, the counter for raising it is reset, and so instantly doing something stat-raising bumps the stat back to its previous value, and then it takes the regular amount of time to raise that stat to the next level.

(I was secretly hoping that the time-to-raise value would get reset and so it would let you raise stats up quickly if you did it immediately after they dropped, but no such luck apart from getting them in their previous place)

2. The time to drop a stat does not depend whether it was raised a long or a short time ago, instead, it depends on the height of the stat (the higher it is, the faster it drops).

There are some weird anomalies: unless I got something wrong, after dropping from 13 it 12 Agility, it took me just over 30 minutes to get it back up, then over 2 hours to raise it further to 14, then NINE hours to raise it to 15, and then less than 3 hours to raise it to 16 and over 3 hours to raise it to 17. Where the hell did those 9 hours come from?

(it seemed to me so far that stat raising was regular... chances are, there may be something like adding a random amount of points to stat increase/decrease every turn in addition to preset values, or some other weird factors).

Gah, gotta check the source files again

One possibility is that the 'training' doesn't actually add to a counter, but rather adds to a percentage that is checked occasionally.

Hmm? What do you mean by "percentage" and "occassionally"? It's possible the game checks whether to raise/lower a stat every now and then, but guessing from how it always takes something between 25 to 100 turns to raise your agility up one point from the start by running around the world map, it's not totally random and it can be checked on various times.

I'm going to guess that the 14-15 thing is a threshold modifier; given that you can only socm to specific materials every 5 levels of Int, it would make sense to make it harder to reach 20 Int, say, than 21 Int (could also apply to arm strength wrt weapons).

Ah, that makes sense, BDR. It also explains why stats are a bitch to train over 20 naturally. Which should make it a smart strategy to train stats up to 14/19, and then go over with "artificial" means like holy bananas, ommel fluids, fountains, etc. Easy to say, hard to pull out in the brutal world of IVAN.

I mean this: rather than reaching a certain number of points in a stat (i.e. 100), as you train a stat, some internal value is incremented, then converted to a percentage. This percentage is then checked at certain points -- say, every fifth time that particular a stat is trained. (I'm assuming you know what I mean by "checked".) It may also increase slower at higher stat levels, though tbh I usually don't notice a great difference in the rate my stats train at low levels vs high levels.

This being said, however, BDR's explanation makes at least as much sense, if not more.

Kids these days...

They grow up fast, don't they? It seems like its been yesterday since they were little... *Snif* *Snif* *Snif*

Actually Izzy using Mjolak and Neerc se'ulb will make you more chaotic. Each time their special goes off your alignment changes thus:

L++ goes down 10
L+ goes down 8
L goes down 6
L- goes down 4
N+ goes down 2
N doesn't change
N- goes up 2
C+ goes up 4
C goes up 6
C- goes up 8
C-- goes up 10

I don't follow that chao. Doesn't that mean you become more neutral?

I thought that's what I said?


No: the values listed are the amount by which your score in that alignment changes. I believe, anyways.

ohhh i see. wtf happened to your post?

Oops, yes, right you are. You did say it. I was in a bit of a rush, so I read "draws" as meaning it draws effectiveness from your chaotic alignment.

No clue. Fixed it with quick edit. However when I hit "reply" on your post to auto-fill the quote, it started with the same thing.

I have observed and noted one some occasions, I think, how I observed various characters training Agi at different rates!

I think understand the idea that disciplined training for the whole day might just give You the chance of getting an Agi boost the next morning, but since You can train e.g. Dex and AStr quickly, I think it's not the thing.

Actually I suppose that stat growth rates are 'inborn'. Run around with a couple of fresh chars with 10 Agi on the world map - some will get their first 'train' at 13:15, some at 14:30, some even later. I don't, however, know how could I precisely check the other stats. These 'timestamps' are ALWAYS the same (although it's for example ~13:30 and 14:34 if You start with 11 Agi, 12:29 I think for 13 Agi etc.)

(The 'limits' attainable by training, however, seem to be always the same - It's hard to get past 40 AStr, I managed 50 ONCE. It took WEEKS of fighting giant carnivorous plants- or perhaps it would involve special equipment, e.g. socm'ed chests).

I noticed wearing a pair of broken ommel hair boots makes AGI go up at an alarming rate. The pair I was using when I stumbled upon this had -1 enchantment, if that makes a difference.

It's probably your character.

That looks strange. Ischaldirh seemed to say that Neerc se'Ulb makes one more chaotic without changing favor with gods, Chaostrom seemed to show how favor with gods change due to Neerc se'Ulb, Ischaldirh said that what's he said, and Chaostrom agreed.

I think that doing evil deeds change favor with gods.

Isn't it pretty evil to attack something with a weapon of pure malevolence?

I have no clue what I'm talking about. Here's a pineapple to make up for it