New Arm

Apr 26, 2009, 11:45 am

#1

skeleton warrior

Joined: Apr 7, 2008
Location: USSR
Posts: 258

If you were to lose a arm right in the beginning of playing IVAN and kept on going with one arm until GC3 and got a new arm that was made out of flesh, would that new arm be as strong or weaker than the old one?

Apr 27, 2009, 4:17 am

#2

Atavus

Joined: Dec 11, 2008
Posts: 1,770

IIRC it would be like the arms you get at the start of the game, so it would be around 5 ASTR.
Unless I'm completely wrong

System would indicate in graphic if person is mounted on horse or not.
Same system also show if person mounted on boar, elephant, polar bear etc.
Or if person mounted on ass.
Ivan find mounting on ass funny.

Apr 27, 2009, 4:44 pm

#3

skeleton warrior

Joined: Apr 7, 2008
Location: USSR
Posts: 258

It feels like the arm is completely the same as the other arm.

Apr 27, 2009, 5:06 pm

#4

Ex-Tyrant of the IVANers

Joined: Dec 8, 2007
Occupation: Junior Scientist
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I just tested this in WM, and Azba is correct. I gained ~60 LStr, created two valpurium bear traps, and severed one of my legs. I then drank a bottle of healing liquid, restoring my lost leg. Afterwards I had only 47 LStr.

Limbs which are restored by gods may be different, and limbs that are reattached certainly are, but it appears that "healed" limbs are weaker than their originals.

"Put more stuff in the... thing where... more stuff goes in."

Apr 28, 2009, 6:43 am

#5

Atavus' Little Helper

Joined: Dec 2, 2007
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If 4zb4 were correct (with a fix that the default strength is 10, not 5), you would have 35 leg strength after restoring (60+10/2), not 47. Unless your legs had strengths 84 and 36 and replaced 36 with 10.

Apr 28, 2009, 10:02 am

#6

Ex-Tyrant of the IVANers

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Z: I don't recall my specific LStr, but I do remember tapping the 1 key once or twice before downing the bottle of healing liquid... More research may be required. Regardless the restored limb is CERTAINLY not as strong as the original.

"Put more stuff in the... thing where... more stuff goes in."

Apr 28, 2009, 11:33 pm

#7

Atavus

Joined: Dec 11, 2008
Posts: 1,770

Z wrote

If 4zb4 were correct (with a fix that the default strength is 10, not 5), you would have 35 leg strength after restoring (60+10/2), not 47. Unless your legs had strengths 84 and 36 and replaced 36 with 10.

It is possible that one leg can be stronger than the other. Although in very "fixed" circumstances (eg one leg becomes stronger, so you hack off the other before it improves). And I thought the default arm strength is 5 because the typical astr is 10, but when an arm is hacked off it goes down to about 5 or 6.

System would indicate in graphic if person is mounted on horse or not.
Same system also show if person mounted on boar, elephant, polar bear etc.
Or if person mounted on ass.
Ivan find mounting on ass funny.

Apr 29, 2009, 12:52 am

#8

Ex-Tyrant of the IVANers

Joined: Dec 8, 2007
Occupation: Junior Scientist
Location: Not California
Interests: Physics and Astronomy, Exoplanets, Singing praise to Valpurus while smashing skulls with a bloody warhammer, Jogging
Posts: 2,920

I think the displayed stat is actually an average of the stats of the two limbs.

"Put more stuff in the... thing where... more stuff goes in."

Apr 29, 2009, 4:14 pm

#9

skeleton warrior

Joined: Apr 7, 2008
Location: USSR
Posts: 258

Ischaldirh wrote

I think the displayed stat is actually an average of the stats of the two limbs.

Tha'ts what i was thinking.

May 3, 2009, 5:09 pm

#10

angel

Joined: Dec 2, 2007
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As an all natural limbs IVAN player I can assure that stats are trained individually for each limb. When a limb is replaced with with a new flesh limb it is exactly the same strength as the one that was lost. I you play a long time missing one limb or with artificial limb then that limb does not get trained. When you get a new flesh limb it is the exact same strenghth as the last flesh limb you had and the AStr value displayed is the SUM (not average) of the two limb strengths. Eg lose an arm at AStr 12 and your Astr drops to six. train you good arm until you have an AStr of 10 (total) and then drink a healing potion and you will have an Astr of 16 (10 + 6).

May 3, 2009, 10:19 pm

#11

Ex-Tyrant of the IVANers

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slob wrote

As an all natural limbs IVAN player I can assure that stats are trained individually for each limb. When a limb is replaced with with a new flesh limb it is exactly the same strength as the one that was lost. I you play a long time missing one limb or with artificial limb then that limb does not get trained. When you get a new flesh limb it is the exact same strenghth as the last flesh limb you had and the AStr value displayed is the SUM (not average) of the two limb strengths. Eg lose an arm at AStr 12 and your Astr drops to six. train you good arm until you have an AStr of 10 (total) and then drink a healing potion and you will have an Astr of 16 (10 + 6).

The reason I think it's an average, not a sum, is because when you train your strength you get two messages ("Your right arm feels stronger." "Your left arm feels stronger.") sometimes several turns apart, but your overall AStr only goes up by one point.

Nobody is debating that stats are trained individually for each limb though. I'm going to do another Wizmode test in a moment and see what happens if I lose a limb at 100 LStr (since legs are easier to lose than arms), then replace it with a potion.

Right. 100 LStr. Took several tries to sever either of my legs, since I was upping all of my stats at the same time, so I also have ~100 End. Once the leg was severed I immediately dropped to 50 LStr. After drinking a Potion of Healing and restoring my leg, I have 99 LStr (66 because the leg is damaged). So somewhere along the line I lost 1 LStr, but that can probably be assumed to be due to some rounding error, or one leg being slightly stronger than the other, or any of a number of other things.

"Put more stuff in the... thing where... more stuff goes in."

May 3, 2009, 10:40 pm

#12

The Imperialist

Joined: Dec 2, 2007
Location: New Attnam
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It's the sum.

I had both legs, LStr was 100. I detached my left limb and healed it with a potion, and it went up to 82. Then I detached my right leg, and the left leg by itself had only 32 (so the right must have had 50). If it were the average then the left would have had 64 by itself. If Izzy's LStr went up to 99 instead of 82, apparently the strength of the new leg is random?
So it is definitely the sum, and a healing potion definitely does not give it its full strength back.

btw Izzy you can press '0' (zero) to detach a limb in wizard mode

May 4, 2009, 3:31 am

#13

Atavus' Little Helper

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If you have only one leg, the strength value shown is actually the half of its strength (i.e. average with 0 of the other limb).

If you wear a single gauntlet of strength +10, your displayed strength will go up by 5, is right?

May 4, 2009, 12:04 pm

#14

Ex-Tyrant of the IVANers

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Z wrote

If you wear a single gauntlet of strength +10, your displayed strength will go up by 5, is right?

Actually in this particular case I don't think so. If I recall correctly gauntlets of strength have to be in pairs to work. I could be wrong in this.

"Put more stuff in the... thing where... more stuff goes in."

May 4, 2009, 12:09 pm

#15

The Imperialist

Joined: Dec 2, 2007
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That's not true Izzy, it's just if you are only wearing one +1, then the average is .5, which they round down to 0. I have one that is +5 right now on only one arm, and it increases the AStr by 2. So I guess it is the average then

May 4, 2009, 12:49 pm

#16

The town crier

Joined: Sep 22, 2008
Posts: 634

A simple experiment:

- A guy with 10 AStr in the start has one of his arms removed, so the AStr shows up as 5.

Now, in case the the AStr is indeed the average of both arms, the arm he has left should have the strength of 10.

To test if this is true:

- Summon up a Turox, which takes 13 AStr to wield with one hand.
- Obtain a gauntlet of strength +3.
- Wear the gauntlet.

Now, if you can use the mace with one hand, the average theory must be correct.

Results:

After putting on the glove, the shown AStr value jumped to 6, which supports capristo's observations above. When trying to wield the Turox, it indeed succeeded, thus proving the average theory correct.

Image scaled. Click here to view full size

May 4, 2009, 2:34 pm

#17

The Imperialist

Joined: Dec 2, 2007
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Interests: bananas
Posts: 2,309

Well that's conclusive I'd say. What is the world coming to when slob is proved wrong about IVAN

May 4, 2009, 8:36 pm

#18

skeleton warrior

Joined: Apr 7, 2008
Location: USSR
Posts: 258

Good Job, take a night off!

May 4, 2009, 9:05 pm

#19

angel

Joined: Dec 2, 2007
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Location: Under a pile of my own offspring
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Posts: 612

Nice work, I was thinking as soon as i wrote it that this was really a moot point by and that they are mathematically equivalent and its just how you think of it but through devious means you actually proved how the code was written. I should have remember what I learned in Gynecology:

When generating a differential diagnosis in gynecology always remember to think outside the box.

(very funny if you are a native english speaker.)