God tweaks

Oct 23, 2016, 7:24 pm
#26
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Giving NPCs parasites isn't much use, according to my reading of the code they can't die of starvation, faint from hunger, or even lose stats from nutrition states.
Oct 23, 2016, 7:43 pm
#27
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capristo wrote
we should totally rename that flag to IS_ERNOMOUSE as a dev easter egg

Seconded!
Oct 23, 2016, 8:14 pm
#28
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In my test game, something like 60 monsters died due to parasites by the time the ennerbeast killed me. Side note: lightning wands are super weak.
Oct 23, 2016, 8:17 pm
#29
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The symbiont idea is neat. You would have to eat twice as much but it helps you heal more quickly too. And maybe it keeps growing and you have to "carry" it so it counts towards your burdened/stressed status. The bigger it gets the harder it is to vomit out, and if you wait too long it'll burst out of you
Oct 23, 2016, 8:17 pm
#30
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Ighalli wrote
In my test game, something like 60 monsters died due to parasites by the time the ennerbeast killed me. Side note: lightning wands are super weak.

Awesome!
Oct 23, 2016, 11:36 pm
#31
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capristo wrote
we should totally rename that flag to IS_ERNOMOUSE as a dev easter egg

Random chance for statue to turn into a mouse statue?

Serin-Delaunay wrote
Giving NPCs parasites isn't much use, according to my reading of the code they can't die of starvation, faint from hunger, or even lose stats from nutrition states.

The parasites still do damage, if I remember aright.
Oct 24, 2016, 1:36 am
#32
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capristo wrote
The symbiont idea is neat. You would have to eat twice as much but it helps you heal more quickly too. And maybe it keeps growing and you have to "carry" it so it counts towards your burdened/stressed status. The bigger it gets the harder it is to vomit out, and if you wait too long it'll burst out of you

The symbiont idea is great, but I wouldn't make it a chestburster. No other god is actively trying to kill you after a successful prayer.

BTW, how hard would it be to make limbs regrown by Scabies use the unused tentacle-limb graphics? It doesn't need to have any special effect, just a minor flavor bit and spook for new players.
Oct 24, 2016, 8:24 am
#33
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Haha yeah I took it a little far. But I do like the idea of more things like the valpurium +10 sword. They are really helpful for a short time but could screw you over if you're not careful.
Nov 6, 2016, 3:36 am
#34
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Ighalli wrote
We could make Silva work just like Loricatus, except she upgrades leathery stuff.

What if Silva upgraded leathery stuff like Loricatus, but if an eligible item is not wielded in right hand, tried to upgrade wooden secondary material of the item? Right now, the player has no way of changing the secondary material of things like spears, axes or any other weapon with wooden haft. Giving Silva the option to turn all hafts up to ebony could be nice.

Now, no the subject of championship gifts, I find that many gods seem to lack in their championship gifts. So:

SPOILER ALERT. Click here to see text.
Valpurus
SPOILER ALERT. Click here to see text.
He's got a strong gift, I think, but what about adding some variety? The first time, he could always give you a valpurium sword and shield, but subsequent times, he could give you a random valpurium weapon instead (no special weapons like staffs of wondrous smells or daggers fo venom, only normal weapons). Thus you would get some leeway in using other weapons with Valpurus.


Legifer
SPOILER ALERT. Click here to see text.
Hm, I have to confess I have probably never become a champion of Legifer, or I don't remember, so I don't know what does he give you. Off the top of my head, highly enchanted (+4 to +6) helmet of piercing perception would be interesting, as it is otherwise overshadowed by helmet of Int. He could also give you Turox, which seems to fit his niche of huge explosions.


Atavus
SPOILER ALERT. Click here to see text.
That arcanite plate mail is great. Rather than championship gifts, I would actually love to see him giving you something after each successful prayer. It's somewhat discouraging to see he's pleased but nothing happens. What if he gave you a random item with maximum price of favour/2 after each successful prayer? That would be flavourful, sometimes interesting and hopefully not too powerful.


Dulcis
SPOILER ALERT. Click here to see text.
Lyre of charm is a fitting championship gift, I think.


Seges
SPOILER ALERT. Click here to see text.
An unusual championship gift for Seges could be training you End. Quite useful, I think, and not seen in other gods, so interesting to try. As a goddess of health and life, I was thinking maybe amulet of life saving would be nice, but that would quickly become overpowered as you could hoard them. Maybe temporary life saved status instead?


Sophos
SPOILER ALERT. Click here to see text.
Sophos is a god of knowledge, he could maybe grant you knowledge of permanent beneficial status effect, randomly selected from telecontrol, ESP, searching, invisible. Telecontrol and ESP can already be gained permanently, so no OP stuff here, searching is nice but not necessary and invisibility is two-edged sword. I think it could be an interesting gift.


Silva
SPOILER ALERT. Click here to see text.
Maybe one of the following items could make a nice championship gift: phoenix feather cloak of fire resistance (useful and cool, plus life saving for players who found no fire resist items), green/blue/purple crystal cuirass (there was a thread where 4zb4 was going to make special stone armors, with high AV and high penalties, flavourful gift), weeping blade (a crystal blade!).


Loricatus
SPOILER ALERT. Click here to see text.
Pretty please, give him adamant thunder hammer as a championship gift! Yes, it's strong, but also very dangerous to use and requires high AStr to actually use well. And as the smith god, he deserves to have a cool weapon gift.


Mellis
SPOILER ALERT. Click here to see text.
He's already strong as hell. If anything, he should give you a golden banana!


Cleptia
SPOILER ALERT. Click here to see text.
Dagger of venom, cloak of invisibility and gauntlets of dexterity immediately come to my mind. Maybe randomly selected for each championship gift?


Nefas
SPOILER ALERT. Click here to see text.
She's already a minion god, so giving a strong mistress as a championship gift (warlady?) would be cool.


Scabies
SPOILER ALERT. Click here to see text.
She just got a ring of unchanging. Cool.


Infuscor
SPOILER ALERT. Click here to see text.
Arcanite or octiron staff of wondrous smells. She's wizard god and magical staff is absolutely fitting.


Cruentus
SPOILER ALERT. Click here to see text.
I would actually like to see him giving you some orc allies. But a good championship gift could be a random two-handed weapon (2H sword or scimitar, halberd, battle-axe) made of high-level material. Cruentus worshipper as a warrior with huge weapon seems rather fitting.


Mortifer
SPOILER ALERT. Click here to see text.
Here, I would really like to see him NOT giving you multiple Neerc Se-ulbs. It's a unique artifact! As with Valpurus above, let him give you Neerc the first time, then give a highly enchanted scythe (his aligned weapon). Scythes are cool.

Nov 6, 2016, 8:56 am
#35
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I think this idea overlaps somewhat with the random gifts that most of the gods already give. This has a 5% chance of happening any time your relation is above 100, and creates a random aligned item with value between relation/2 and relation*2, then fixes it if it's broken and adds enchantments.
The result of this in the game is that I already pray to Dulcis repeatedly in the hope of randomly receiving a lyre of charm, I'm often drowning in helmets of attractivity from Mellis, Silva showers me with quarterstaves and the occasional thunder hammer, Loricatus gives me scrolls of repair and the occasional SoCM/SoHM, Atavus gives lamps, scrolls of wishing, and random chests, Cleptia gives me almost as many haste/invis wands as my heart desires (and cloaks), Seges gives me stethoscopes, Sophos gives me scrolls of charging, and Infuscor has occasionally given me wands of cloning!
So the question is less whether all the gods should give gifts as much as whether the current system of gifts is at an appropriate level of reliability, ease of access, and generosity, and whether some item alignments are correct (thunder hammer, cloak of fire resistance, etc.).
Nov 8, 2016, 11:31 am
#36
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After reading this last post I don't think I ever realized how powerful/useful the gods were. i would pray to atavus for the plate and then run down to c- for the mace and get cleptia on my side for my Whips O Thievery. I didnt realize that atavus gave you random wishing scrolls and lamsp. thats pretty cool.

Is the list of the gods favors on the wiki? Even after all these years i am surprised at how little i know about most of them.

Nov 8, 2016, 12:58 pm
#37
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The wiki is, as far as I can tell, quite out of date in a lot of respect...
Nov 8, 2016, 2:23 pm
#38
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The wiki lists (incompletely) the gifts that the gods like to receive. These more or less correspond to the random gifts they give. I think they're more likely to give aligned items rather than unaligned items made of an aligned material. Script/item.dat is the most reliable reference for that kind of info.
May 2, 2:47 pm
#39
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Bumping this thread because of the ring of unchanging pull request that is hangin on github.

I really like the idea of making it a championship gift of Scabies, because she's (IMHO) a bit weak and the ring is an interesting and unique way of making her prayers more controlled by the player. What do you think about merging the ring of unchanging as a championship gift of Scabies?
May 3, 1:12 am
#40
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Ischaldirh wrote
RE: The ring of unchanging. Seems odd for a chaotic god to give you ways of controlling yourself.

Unchanging is not about control, that would be polycontrol. Unchanging helps you make better use of the random shapes Scabies gives you.
May 3, 9:51 am
#41
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Ultimately it's the same idea - you are halting change for an indeterminate amount of time. You are exercising control over your shape. Most likely someone with the RoU would polymorph themselves several times until they landed in a useful shape, slip on their ring, and away they go.
May 3, 3:11 pm
#42
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Here's an alternate idea for a Scabies championship-type gift: a unique wand with infinite (or quasi-infinite - perhaps it recharges itself periodically?) charges which randomly does one of several thematic effects when 'z'apped. Things such as a polymorph ray, or a splash of poison.

Also, why does the Godess of Famine feed you? I mean, yes, it's school food, but still... seems anti-thematic.
May 4, 1:16 am
#43
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Ischaldirh wrote
Ultimately it's the same idea - you are halting change for an indeterminate amount of time. You are exercising control over your shape.

Yes, but I think you are taking the "chaos" aspect too literally. Necromancers can also (persumably) control their zombies, and they are using the (chaotic) magic of Infuscor. Nefaqs is a dominatrix godess - she's all about control. Mortifer wants to destroy the world - that's not chaos, that's oblivion.

IMO, the names "law" and "chaos" are not especially well-fitting for the gods - they are simply two opposing factions, maybe closer to "good" and "evil", but with Valpurus as the King, I'd be quite careful with calling lawful gods "good"...

Ultimately, I don't think being chaotic means the gods would oppose all means of control. Maybe they are more impulsive and moody, but why would they be opposed to control when they try to conquer and control the world?

Ischaldirh wrote
Most likely someone with the RoU would polymorph themselves several times until they landed in a useful shape, slip on their ring, and away they go.

That's the idea. It would be nice from gameplay perspective to evetually gain a tool for making the most out of the effects you are granted by Scabies. It would also make her more powerful, so she would be on par with the other gods.

Ischaldirh wrote
Here's an alternate idea for a Scabies championship-type gift:

That pretty much recreates her prayer effects. I think being ablt to pray for those effects is enough.

Ischaldirh wrote
Also, why does the Godess of Famine feed you? I mean, yes, it's school food, but still... seems anti-thematic.

It's school food, that's worse than starvation. Remember she is also godess of disease and poisons - she pretty much feeds you one of the worst poisons in existence, which is not at all anti-thematic.
May 4, 6:57 am
#44
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What if... Scabies gave you a status effect, where you vomit poison onto enemies randomly as you attack them, without interfering with your attacks.
May 4, 8:02 am
#45
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chaostrom wrote
What if... Scabies gave you a status effect, where you vomit poison onto enemies randomly as you attack them, without interfering with your attacks.

And without losing nutrition points?
May 4, 9:46 am
#46
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Well, that's the thing. There isn't much point arguing about a championship gift that'd make the most of the prayer effects when most people don't even pray to Scabies because the prayer effects suck. I looked back through the thread to refresh my memory and though I made some general suggestions nobody added anything more to it. This poison spitting status would replace the poison splash, which is worse than a bottle of poison as it stands. At least the bottle can be carried around, applied to a weapon, thrown and broken at your leisure without a timer attached, and the broken bottle can be swapped out via Mellis. This status would basically extend the poison splashing without changing what it does too much. Why stop at poison though? Could be interesting to vomit mutant blood all over your enemies and randomly polymorph them too, or acid, or maybe even vomit healing fluids all over yourself. Not losing any nutrition points is a bit iffy, Scabies is a chaotic god. There's gotta be some drawback. Maybe half the nutrition?
May 4, 9:59 am
#47
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chaostrom wrote
There isn't much point arguing about a championship gift that'd make the most of the prayer effects when most people don't even pray to Scabies because the prayer effects suck.

Actually, that's the point of the ring - polymorph can be powerful, and with the ring, the random polymorphs from prayers to Scabies would no longer suck. I like Scabies and I would like her to be more powerful.

Changing her other effects to be better is a nice added bonus, but I think the ring is a good first step.
May 4, 10:35 am
#48
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chaostrom wrote
Dulcis is the goddess of love and art. The love part is obvious, the taming, but I feel you can extend that theme and have her gift you pet related items.

What if one of the prayer effects of Dulcis (as the resident pet god) raised the attributes of all nearby pets when you pray to her? She's also currently quite underpowered, and making her a full-blown support for pet keepers might be nice.
May 4, 11:03 am
#49
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Underpowered? She's the only god more lawful than Sophos that I regularly pray to. Free taming is really useful for science talk.
May 4, 1:17 pm
#50
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Re: Scabies and her prayer effects sucking. At this point, I'm just vomiting ideas. If y'all decide the RoU is the best solution, that's fine. Personally, I feel there is a better way to make her interesting. I just don't know what it is.

It makes sense, in my mind, for the champion of a deity to personify the deity's sphere of influence, and to spread that influence through the world - i.e. the Champion of the God of Law and Order being the world's greatest police officer. In that sense, it could also be interesting if a devotee of Scabies became a plague carrier - themselves immune (though a Cha hit might be thematically appropriate) but spreading horrible diseases everywhere they go. Food might rot faster around them, though the champion themselves might need less food to survive. (After all, it wouldn't make sense for a god to starve their champion to death - even if that god were the god of famine). The poison-spray could be nifty too. Each of these effects might be a gift ring (or amulet or cloak or ...).

Personally, also, I dislike the association between "mutation" and "polymorphing". I mean, I suppose it makes sense in that eating mutant flesh gives you polymorphitis - but the mutants themselves do not polymorph. I think it might be more thematic if the mutations were a little more permanent and subtle, like fucking with attributes (with a tendency towards raising them, but not in every case) or even ADOM-style chaos mutations.
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