Dual Wielding?

Aug 23, 2009, 10:54 am
#1
Joined: Aug 23, 2009
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I've been playing IVAN for a few years now, and after about an hour reading topics on this forum, I've learn a lot, most useful probably being the uses of wands of polymorph. However there's one thing I've never been able to figure out; is there any disadvantage to dual wielding at all? I almost always play using dual wielded daggers for the amount of hits, but I've been wondering if there's any penalties for this.

Edit: Sorry, I think I posted this in the wrong forum. If a moderator could move this to general discussion, I'd appreciate it.
Aug 23, 2009, 2:53 pm
#2
Joined: Jan 11, 2008
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The only real limiter to dual-wielding is arm strength; if neither of your arms are strong enough individually (yes, apparently individual arm strength is tracked) to wield a weapon, you can't wield it one-handed. There is also an ostensive penalty for being just barely strong enough to hold a weapon ("you have much trouble/some difficulty wielding this item with one hand"); probably you have to have at least two points more than the required strength to avoid this. It shouldn't impair you nearly as much as being burdened or stressed unless you are learning to use a weapon for the first time (no skill in use at all).
Aug 23, 2009, 3:51 pm
#3
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Okay, cool, thanks. I've actually started using a dagger with a shield as opposed to two daggers. What would you say is more effective? Because with the daggers I was thinking that my ability to block with them would rise with skill with the weapon, but that's just something I've thought of from ADOM.
Aug 23, 2009, 4:39 pm
#4
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It was an accurate geuss; as your skill with a weapon rises, so does your accuracy. Accuracy determines blocking ability. Shields probably have some modifier that affects this, but a wooden shield is still better than a metal one (generally) because the wooden shield is lighter and more accurate. Unfortunately it also breaks faster.

However as far as I know, most people play dual-wield, or two-hander. S&S isn't too common in IVAN because your damage output is generally lower, and it doesn't train AStr as efficiently, which tends to limit your ability to use larger weapons (as well as your damage).
Aug 23, 2009, 5:29 pm
#5
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Okay, sweet, that's really good to know. The file I was just playing I was using a steel dagger +7 with an ommel bone shield +3, Iron left arm, ommel hair right arm, troll hide legs. I was doing really well due to the shield blocking practically everything, and even though it did eventually start to rot, I socm'd it into mithril to keep the +3 bonus.

I died when entering the Enner Beast lair. It stepped on a landmine right after I detected his place in the level, and it must've had a wand of teleportation on the same square or something, because when I approached the place where he was and looked around a bit, he came out the tunnel I came from and destroyed me in melee. I was saving 4 wands of lightning for the fight and the lucky bugger managed to get close to me.
T_T

Anyways, that's why I became dependant on shields.
Aug 23, 2009, 11:35 pm
#6
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You might also like to note that a second weapon is superior to a shield short of getting the best shields for blocking. The only shields that won't break on you are valpurium and golden eagle feather (yes, even octiron can break on you). I remember doing some tests and reporting it in IRC, if someone could dig that up for our new member here?
Aug 23, 2009, 11:54 pm
#7
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I'll leave that for someone more versed in forum-combing. However I will point out that, assuming you're playing CVS (or one of it's variants) and not 050, finding an acid shield would be a good argument for playing a S&S game. Just don't bank on getting your opponent's weapon. Like, ever.
Aug 23, 2009, 11:57 pm
#8
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I dunno, the arcanite chain of materials are acid-proof, are they not?
Aug 23, 2009, 11:58 pm
#9
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Possibly... but if your opponent is attacking you with an arcanite/mithril/octiron weapon you're probably in a fair bit of trouble anyways.
Aug 23, 2009, 11:59 pm
#10
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Also, whips.
Aug 24, 2009, 12:12 am
#11
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Yeah, I've started playing dual whips for the great limb removal. Currently on GC 4 with Ommel Hair Whip +2 (I haven't found any other enchant weapons, or whips suprisingly.) I just found a wand of cloning as well, and wondering what I should use it on. I don't have anything really useful to clone at the moment. It was in the Meteoric Steel Chest.
Aug 24, 2009, 12:56 am
#12
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I think he was referring to whips' immunity to acid (due to the inability to break).

Speaking of that sort of thing, in addition to the arcanite chain being powerful, they're dangerous to an acid-shield user in another way: the acid gets on the weapon. Then you're getting hit with an acid-coated powerful weapon, which is a quick road to a violent death.
Aug 24, 2009, 1:58 am
#13
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By the way, I found the log about shields. It's the new "Discussion on Shields" thread.
Aug 24, 2009, 2:19 am
#14
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I don't really know anything about this acid shield, I play .50 and always have, haha.
Aug 24, 2009, 2:31 am
#15
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Good call. Of all the releases 050 is probably the most balanced. It's also the only one I've had the patience to beat.
Aug 24, 2009, 2:45 am
#16
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dual whips or halberd (preferably Mjolak) are the only ways I play
Aug 24, 2009, 3:11 am
#17
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Farthest I've ever gotten is GC 6. I've only gotten past Enner beast maybe a dozen times. There's always one thing I don't have when I get there, whether it's enough wands, or a permanent light source, or high enough health, or whatever.
Aug 25, 2009, 2:40 am
#18
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You can always go back and look around, find that sort of thing, buff up some before you go face him. Probably a good idea to enter the level and make him spawn beforehand though.
Aug 25, 2009, 3:11 am
#19
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A place with guaranteed light sources is UT4 - crystals are spawned around there, and You can mine the 'stationary' ones by hitting them twice with a lightning bolt.
Aug 25, 2009, 4:16 am
#20
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Alveradok wrote
You can mine the 'stationary' ones by hitting them twice with a lightning bolt.

Or with a meteoric steel (or harder) pick axe. Unfortunately this will only net you blue and purple stones if you use meteoric steel, as meteoric steel has exactly the same hardness as green light crystal -- thus it can't dig through it. Fortunately however as far as light sources are concerned the three colors are functionally identical; they only vary in the color of the light produced.
Aug 25, 2009, 6:01 am
#21
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You don't even need to mine for them, kill the 3 golems and you're set.
Aug 25, 2009, 6:33 am
#22
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Canned ommel urine works well. Although it isn't really worth keeping as a light source.
Aug 25, 2009, 8:09 am
#23
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chaostrom wrote
You don't even need to mine for them, kill the 3 golems and you're set.

Point is, this way You can get crystals even out of the UT4 starting room, if You're not ready to take on the golems yet!

BTW, are there always only 3 golems!?
Aug 25, 2009, 8:34 am
#24
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I think there are guaranteed to be one of each color crystal golem, but there are definitely other types as well. I wonder if other crystal golems spawn there too though?
Aug 25, 2009, 11:24 am
#25
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I could probably backtrack to UT 4 easy enough. Normally I find a broken flaming sword along the way to GC 5, but I never have some other necessity.
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