Some notes on late-game metal armors Sticky

Nov 3, 2016, 8:57 pm
#1
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Out of curiosity, I did a little testing with different armors and mid- and late-game materials. I tested chain mail, plate armor, and Armor of Great Health. (Note that because AoGH typically spawns with a +1, all the ones I tested also had a +1.) I used the following metals: Meteoric Steel, Arcanite, Mithril, Illithium, Octiron, Adamant, Valpurium. (I left out lower-level metals because I felt they were irrelevant - who puts on bronze plate armor anyways?) I also ran tests on "soft" armor, including Phoenix Feather, Angel Hair, Dragon HIde, Spider Silk, and Golden Eagle Feather. I checked armor values and dex/agi penalties (as a percentage). Here are my results:

Chain Mail
Material Name	AV	Weight	Penalty
Meteoric Steel	9	14000	10%
Arcanite	11	1600	3%
Mithril		12	10000	5%
Illithium	14	12000	10%
Octiron		17	1800	5%
Adamant		21	20000	10%
Valpurium	25	6000	2%

Plate Armor
Material Name	AV	Weight	Penalty
Meteoric Steel	15	28000	20%
Arcanite	18	3200	6%
Mithril		20	20000	10%
Illithium	22	24000	20%
Octiron		27	3600	10%
Adamant		35	40000	20%
Valpurium	40	12000	5%

Armor of Great Health +1
Material Name	AV	Weight	Penalty
Meteoric Steel	12	35000	40%
Arcanite	14	4000	13%
Mithril		16	25000	20%
Illithium	17	30000	40%
Octiron		21	4500	20%
Adamant		27	50000	40%
Valpurium	31	15000	10%

Soft Mail
Material Name	AV	Weight	Penalty
Phoenix Feather	5	400	0%
Angel Hair	8	600	0%
Dragon Hide	10	5000	2%
Spider Silk	11	600	0%
GEF		18	200	0%

Soft Plate
Material Name	AV	Weight	Penalty
Phoenix Feather	8	800	0%
Angel Hair	14	1200	0%
Dragon Hide	16	10000	4%
Spider Silk	18	1200	1%
GEF		30	400	0%

Soft AoGH +1
Material Name	AV	Weight	Penalty
Phoenix Feather	7	1000	1%
Angel Hair	11	1500	1%
Dragon Hide	13	125000	8%
Spider Silk	14	1500	2%
GEF		23	500	1%

Valuable Mail
Material Name	AV	Weight	Penalty
Silver		3	21000	10%
Gold		3	40000	3.3%
Sapphire/Ruby	15	8000	10%
Diamond		18	7000	10%

Valuable Plate
Material Name	AV	Weight	Penalty
Silver		6	42000	20%
Gold		5	80000	6.6%
Sapphire/Ruby	25	16000	20%
Diamond		30	14000	20%

Valuable AoGH +1
Material Name	AV	Weight	Penalty
Silver		5	52500	40%
Gold		5	100000	13.3%
Sapphire/Ruby	19	20000	40%
Diamond		23	17500	40%

Shirt of the Golden Eagle +10
Material Name	AV	Weight	Penalty
GEF		40	100	1.2%

For reference: INT requirements for various materials. (For hardening. Remember to add 5 if you want to SoCM.)

INT	Materials
15	Meteoric Steel
20	Arcanite, Phoenix Feather
25	Mithril, Illithium
30	Silver, Gold
35	Angel Hair, Dragon Hide, Sapphire, Ruby
40	Octiron, Adamant, Spider Silk, Diamond
45	
50	Valpurium, Golden Eagle Feather

From this we can draw some conclusions about the usefulness of various armor types.

Chain Mail: Useful in the mid-game, but not really worth it outside that. Arcanite and Mithril chain mail are great in the 20-35 INT range - low penalties, manageable weight, and superior AV to soft armor - but below 20 INT the weight and penalties are too high, and above 35 INT the soft plates have superior AV and almost no penalties.

Plate Armor: Great AV, but nasty weight and penalties. Not worth it until you can get the Arcanite series - Arcanite plate is easy to acquire, and is comparable to the 35 INT Spider Silk soft armor. Mithril plate may not be worth it, though; however, at 40 INT, Octiron is a solid option, and at 50 INT the Valpurium plate is a rival to a GEF armor.

Soft Armor: Excluding a gap between 20 and 35 INT, soft armor are probably the best option. The almost absolute lack of penalties is hard to beat, and the 400 gram GEF armor is pretty excellent.

Soft Chain: I just ran these for fun. They are useless.

AoGH: Don't. Just don't. There is nothing redeeming about this armor, whether soft or hard. Double the penalties, 25% more weight, 25% less AV; "balanced" by more HP, which means nastier enemies spawning.
Nov 3, 2016, 10:11 pm
#2
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AoGH really must be a joke by the devs specially prepared for new players.
Nov 3, 2016, 11:09 pm
#3
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That wouldn't surprise me at all. It's just like the SPOILER ALERT. Click here to see text.
valpurium sword +10
. So attractive and hard to resist for someone who hasn't learned the hard way
Nov 4, 2016, 12:45 am
#4
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This looks pretty good. I'm Sticking it next to my weapon comparisons.
Nov 4, 2016, 5:14 am
#5
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Those were my findings too. Although I'd add that adamant chain mail is available via Loricatus long before 40 Int, and has better AV than all the soft mail except GEF. It also beats mithril plate by a single point, being equal in all other respects. So it's pretty much the best available until 40 Int and octiron plate.
Nov 4, 2016, 8:53 am
#6
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Serin-Delaunay wrote
Although I'd add that adamant chain mail is available via Loricatus long before 40 Int, and has better AV than all the soft mail except GEF. It also beats mithril plate by a single point, being equal in all other respects.

I'm not totally clear on how Loricatus currently works. Care to enlighten me?

As far as adamant chain is concerned, it is a good option, if you can stomach the 10% dex and agi penalties. As a side note, I'd like to see similar comparisons done on boots/gauntlets. I expect similar results. I'd also be interested to see how the penalties stack.
Nov 4, 2016, 6:11 pm
#7
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Loricatus tries to harden the material of the item wielded in your right hand, or your left hand if the right hand is missing or empty. He fails if the material is not aligned with him, if the material cannot be hardened, or if the item cannot have its material changed.

Otherwise, IR is calculated as:
IR = I - floor(R/50)
where I is the intelligence requirement to harden the material, and R is the player's relation to Loricatus. If IR is less than 2, the hardening succeeds. If IR is 2 or more, the chance to harden successfully is 1 in IR.

with R = 1000 (the maximum), R/50 is 20. That's enough to harden anything up to meteoric steel with certainty. To harden from meteoric steel to adamant, the chance is 1 in 20, or 5%. If you have maximum relationship with Loricatus, and pray 20 times (2 days and 2 hours) while wielding a meteoric steel chain mail in the right hand, you have a ~64% chance of getting adamantine chain mail, without any INT requirement (you'll need food though).
Nov 5, 2016, 9:37 am
#8
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That's cool, but it seems like a lot of effort to get something only slightly better (and a lot heavier) than the easily available arcanite plate. I suppose if you cant get atavus happy its an option.
Nov 5, 2016, 9:48 am
#9
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Arcanite plate is pretty nice (and has a smaller movement penalty than both adamantine chain and mithril plate), but if you like the neutral gods (and there's a lot to like about them) then it's difficult to maintain a good relationship with them while getting Atavus's gift.
Nov 5, 2016, 10:21 am
#10
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I usually only stick with atavus till I get he armor then dive to c- totry and get mortys gift. I have never played N. I would to hear about the N strategy though and try it in my next game
Nov 5, 2016, 10:42 am
#11
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The N strategy is Mellis gives you all the food you want, all the healing you want, and probably some ommel fluids to clone. And introduces you to all the other gods without having to find their book or altar. Loricatus repairs everything, upgrades all your metal gear to meteoric steel, and maybe a few special things to adamant. Silva gives you better replacement limbs on average than most gods, and if she gives you any bad ones she'll eventually upgrade them to the best. She also provides meat shields to help in the wolf level and distract spellcasters. She tries to put out fires, but it doesn't work very well. Her earthquake blows up all the mines and grenades on a level, and sometimes digs up gems. Later on, you can expand to Sophos/Cleptia/Dulcis/Mortifer or whoever.
Random gifts in the C+ to L- range include SoCMs, SoHMs, repair scrolls, charging scrolls, all cloaks, and wands of haste, invisibility, and teleport.
Nov 5, 2016, 10:43 am
#12
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The N strategy mostly revolves around Mellis and neighboring gods. Mellis keeps you (mostly) fed, keeps you stocked up on healing potions, and occasionally gives you ommel stuffs. Loricatus is pretty peripheral, hardening a few things and occasionally fixing gear. But really, N is N-, because you want Cleptia for obvious reasons.
Nov 5, 2016, 2:31 pm
#13
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Here are the numbers for boots, gauntlets, and cloaks:
Boot, Boot of Agility, Boot of Strength, Boot of Kicking
Material Name	AV	Weight	Penalty (each)
Meteoric Steel	11	2800	5%
Arcanite	13	320	1.5%
Mithril		15	2000	2.5%
Illithium	16	2400	5%
Octiron		20	360	2.5%
Adamant		26	4000	5%
Valpurium	30	1200	1%

Phoenix Feather	6	80	0%
Angel Hair	10	120	0%
Dragon Hide	12	1000	1%
Spider Silk	13	120	0.5%
GEF		22	40	0%

Gauntlet, Gauntlet of Dexterity, Gauntlet of Strength
Material Name	AV	Weight	Penalty (each)
Meteoric Steel	9	2100	10%
Arcanite	11	240	3%
Mithril		12	1500	5%
Illithium	14	1800	10%
Octiron		17	270	5%
Adamant		21	3000	10%
Valpurium	25	900	2.5%

Phoenix Feather	5	60	0%
Angel Hair	8	90	0%
Dragon Hide	10	750	2%
Spider Silk	11	90	0%
GEF		18	30	0%

Cloak, Cloak of * Resistance, Cloak of Invisibility
Material Name	AV	Weight	Penalty
Phoenix Feather	5	400	1%
Angel Hair	8	600	2%
Dragon Hide	10	5000	10%
Spider Silk	11	600	2%
GEF		18	200	2%

Boot includes boots, boots of agility, boots of strength, and boots of kicking. Gauntlet includes gauntlets, gauntlets of dexterity, and gauntlets of strength. Cloak includes cloaks, cloaks of acid/electricity/fire resistance, and cloaks of invisibility. The AV, weight, and inflexibility penalties are unaffected.

You can probably get away with metal boots, but I would probably recommend soft gauntlets.
Nov 5, 2016, 3:46 pm
#14
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You didn't include metal cloaks. (Not that this would be recommended. )
Nov 5, 2016, 4:37 pm
#15
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That was entirely deliberate. Adamant would have an inflexibility penalty of 50%!
Nov 5, 2016, 4:56 pm
#16
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That's only slightly worse than AoGH...

For shits and giggles I just kitted out a character with adamant AoGH, gauntlets, and boots, for a total 60% dexterity and 50% agility penalty. Then I added a dragon hide cloak, reducing me to a mere 30% dexterity and 40% agility.

Then I made the cloak adamant.

100% penalty. But apparently your stats have a floor of 1, so lucky me I guess.

The moral of this story is that these penalties stack, so be careful wearing a lot of metal.

Also, although I already knew this, belts have no affect on your agility or dexterity. If you want to have a 2.5 kg belt, turn one into adamant. Good protection too...
Nov 5, 2016, 5:02 pm
#17
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I tend to wait until I can get valpurium before I bother to SoCM my belt and helmet, but I guess there's something to be said for having adamantine head and groin protection early (as in, as soon as you have Lorocatus and can SoCM them into something on the iron path).

Other ways to get ridiculously bad stat penalties: wear broken equipment. All the broken versions of these items have even higher inelasticity penalties.
Nov 5, 2016, 5:05 pm
#18
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I expect they would be doubled.
Nov 5, 2016, 5:15 pm
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Not exactly. See item.dat for full details. Cloaks are the only ones that actually improve improve.
Nov 28, 2016, 1:27 am
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Responding to earlier post about atavus/mellis. I mostly start my games lawful to get Atavus' plate mail and sometimes even a nice valpurium sword and shield and then switch to my usual range - mellis to Seges/Dulcis and all the gods in between. Its not hard to make the switch. It requires some offering, routine praying and lots of reading. Silva is easy to please with fruit, especially superabundant kiwis from UT3. Mellis is easy to please with jewels/stones. You can alway kill Decos and mine the Cathedral for more gold than you can carry (bring a pet elite guard or two to carry if you want). Cant find the right altar? Wand of polymorph is your friend. Zap - Scabies becomes Mellis/silva/loricatus.

Dec 1, 2016, 9:44 pm
#21
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OP updated: Added gold, silver, sapphire, ruby, and diamond. Sapphire and ruby have identical stats. Neither is a particularly excellent choice, though they are also not terrible either. Chain armor made of gemstones can be a decent option at 35-Int if you have already have invested in enchanting some chain mail and plan to keep it, but full dragon hide armor is almost strictly better for the same Int. Diamond does not compete favorably with octiron. Gold and silver are jokes - simply carrying gold AoGH and nothing else requires a minimum of 14 LStr.

I also added a chart including the materials mentioned, and the INT cost progression.
Dec 2, 2016, 3:01 am
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Awesome!

The question is, is the SPOILER ALERT. Click here to see text.
Shirt of the Golden Eagle
really the best armour?
Dec 2, 2016, 11:58 am
#23
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I added it to my list. Yes. Yes it is. If you managed to make it +0, it would still be a lighter-weight version of normal GEF armor, except it also glows and always comes as +10. And the armor check penalty is small enough that you won't see it at all until you have nearly 100 agi/dex.
Dec 2, 2016, 5:19 pm
#24
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Since valpurium plate can be enchanted up to 45AV or more, I tend to prefer it. The 5% stat penalty isn't too bad if every other piece of equipment with an inflexibility penalty is GEF.
Dec 8, 2016, 6:05 am
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Given what's in the new items discussion thread, I wonder how the dragon cuirass stacks up in this chart?
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