Council of IVAN Sticky

May 18, 2014, 1:29 am
#1
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Just for future reference. Since this section is now open to all.

Discussion about IVAN on 4.8. and 5.8.2010

Attending: Alveradok, Bored, Chaostrom, Ernomouse, JoKe, J_Kahvi and Z

----
*Player mood system;
	Graphics are ready (Ernomouse has them)
	various levels of panic
		morale paniced <-> psycho
	Berzerk mood
	Animated face of the player
		when high on mushroom, new face
	One for every mood
	Male and female chars are different

*Sex
	http://www.attnam.com/topics/190/IRC_Adventures/2

*Magic system
	ISP/telekinesis kind, no fireballs and other cliches
	F.ex. lift a sword and use it to attack 
	Shouldn't be based on Mana

	Telekinesis/Magic
		travel through walls but no objects can be carried/worn
			player leaves his body and inventory behind and turns into a ghost
				should the body rot if you're away too long?
		ghost items
			amulet of astral projection
			magical mushroom gas could result in Astral projection
		something else than mana-point based system
	
			if mana-stamina drops low, it'd cause bizarre things
			the player will have to sleep
				dreams
					the player could gain things from dreams
					affect food burning rate; Affect stats; Affect item spawning rate
					finding spells only from the dreams
					12 or so dream world
		eaten items could enhance spells (Nethack?)


*Dig up or down
	Escaping up/downwards

*A new quest
	Retrieve a hammer from the catacombs
	Smith gives you a key to petruses wives
	Sex with one of them -> pregnancy (3 days?)
		What if you're female?
	Sacrifice the child and become Valpuri's champ
		If groin gets scarred a lot, you might get infertile
		Probably Petruses children could be sacrificed instead, as a harder guest
		Magical way of restoring fertility

*Player classes
	Might not be needed

*More comments to the code are needed
	Someone should write a guide to code files

*There is a power chart for balancing weapons
	Accuracy, power, sturdiness
	Frequency of appearance is used to balance the power
	Add features -> play testing

*Steppingstone material between meteorite steel adamantine
	The int requirement takes a huge leap

*Every weapon class should have an artifact
	More special items would be nice too (f.ex. flaming sword)
	Trophy items and NPC's for people who contribute a lot to IVAN
		there are plenty of examples already

*Another route to Attnam might be nice [SCRAPPED IDEA]
	Not sure if it's necessary, as there already are alternate ways

*Different types of damage
	Slash, point, blunt, burn
	Variance between different weapons
	Works diffeerently on f.ex. armour
	Ranged weapons would get more reasonable to have
		sling for blunt
		bow for point
		...


*Should full helmets dampen sound
	The less dense a material is, the better sound barrier it is

*Items and limbs made of f.ex. gas
	A weapon: "Fan"
	Steam powered Vacuum cleaner
		effective against ghosts, insects, thrown items

*Monsters could be put into items 
	Iron maiden
	Cage traps
	The problem is to make the charachter disappear
	Could be handled as f.ex. traps?

*A cloud of insects (fireflies, locusts?)
	The catacombs could have lots of insects

*You could have a conversation with the gods
	Ighalli's god system
		effects should be balanced somehow, so that better effects need better relations
		bad effects 
		god requesting an offer for some favours
		lifestyle choises could effect god relations
			blood contains a lot of iron f.ex.

*Ghosts apperance could vary
	Appearance saved when dying
	Blue and small transparence
	Ghosts that disenchant items
	Ghost that eats anything in the way
	Make them irritating
	Invisible chars leave invis. ghosts

*Chaostroms Zombie torso riddance idea
	Limit the torso animation rate to third or quarter of what it is now
	When the groin is severed, the torso cannot turn into a zombie any more

*Convert all graphics to 32x32 (J_Kahvi could probably do it)
	Opens possibilities to f.ex. turning into a big monster??
	Would double the objects available
		midget objects
		wand of object enlargement
	Midget tunnels and dungeons
	Gulliver
	Create new midget monsters from the existing 16x16 graphics
		midgets handle as groups, so you'd attack all the midgets in one square
		they still could move freely about

*Individual throwing accuracy for all items
	
*Monster ideas:
	Wand using monster
	Poltergeist monster 
	Insect cloud monstertype that you cannot attack by normal melee attack

*Moods on the dungeon ("quite like underground weather")
	magical weather, tiring weather, hungering weather

*Different dungeon types
	Tower dungeon
		very open levels
			wind
			going against the wind would be taxing or slowing
		illusions of f.ex. floor tiles
		you should be able to escape the tower by jumping outside
		if the player walks on a floor made of air then he will fall down a level, until he hits something solid
			Damage based on falling distance
		can't progress backwards
		wind blow would affect large and unencumbered creatures more
			if you jump or fly, you'd automatically get blown a certain amount with the wind
			this way small creatures could find secret dungeons
		tower made of balsa
			if the player weighs too much, the floor breaks
		For a cloack you could wear a Dwarven parachute, which radically decreases falling damage
	Small alien side dungeon
		Based on the frenchmen's alien mod
	Astral projection dungeon
		only accessible as a ghost
		astral projections could carry only one item
			only one revard could be brought outside, in case the side quest would be accessible only once
		wizard hiding from something in an astral plane
			his body is f.ex. suspended into a nearby statue
		constantly exploding level as the entrance
			explosions triggering every moment
			ghosts could be immune to explosions
		ghosts could move between levels without stairs
			see digging up and down
	Midget dungeon

*Too much mining would collapse the level above (Dwarf Fortress style)
	generate not only the level you enter, but the ones next to it

*The catacombs should have a different algorithm than the GC and UT

*BUGS:
Shops shouldn't have locked doors without warning
	when the shop is put into a room, change the locked doors next to it into unlocked ones

*Every new version needs more than the faces and the god system
A couple of tricky features, and a few easier ones

*Spreading fire which generates smoke
	Smoke clouds should have a intensity modifier
		In towers and towns wind should blow away the smoke and spread the fire
	Insects could act as clouds that move randomly
	Beehive that grows... Ogod!
		bug room
		makes a nice practice thing

*Side dungeons that go sideways

*Joke ideas:
	Monty Python:
		llamas
		dead parrot
		holy hand grenade
		the killer rabbit
			a little chance of a killer rabit spawning from adult mutant rabbits mating
		witches that weigh the same as a duck
			duck flesh and witch flesh

*Item ideas:
	Fan (blows away insects and ghosts)
	Steampowered vacuum cleaner (sucks in insects and ghosts)
		Instead of steam powered, it could be basically just a captured Eddie; when it breaks, the Eddy comes out...
	Wand of unlocking / locking (closes unlocked and unlocks the closed doors)
		neither of these ideas were generally liked
	Dwarven parachute
	Rubber boots that boost electricy resistance
	HUGE morningstar type weapon
		weapons destroying walls? You can kick them...
	Weapon tweaks
		The stethoscope is a bit strong as a weapon
		Gauntlets don't use unarmed skill (if they're wielded as weapons, maybe they shouldn't either)
		Wielded gloves should affect unarmed skill and worn gauntlets should do extra damage

*Next version shouldn't be too hard: 
	No new dungeon
	BUGFIX: the shop door creation bug and dissolving body parts (TTY only?)
	BUGFIX: Mustard gas hostility bug
	Insect clouds
	Fire
	Mood system
	Having the bones ghosts look like the original characters
	= IVAN 0.51
Feb 23, 2016, 2:20 am
#2
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Ok so what do people feel should be next?

I have an idea like this:

0.51:
Fire subsystem 1
Improve boots of kicking
Have ghosts look like the previously deceased player
Mood system
Insect clouds
...? more/less?

0.52:
Damascus steel between meteoric and adamant
Full helmets dampening sound
Ighalli's god system
Tentacles and claws as appendages of the player
Male/female player (?)
...

0.53:
Two heads (?)
...

We could swap things out between versions. For instance, I think insect clouds would be a lot of work, but someone else might have a conceptually simple way to implement this and may easily complete it. If not, then it could be swapped out with Ighalli's god system (seeing as he is in our midst again, and it is an interesting change).
I think the next natural step for me as a programmer would be to tackle the ghost subsystem, and I think it can lead on to some of the other fun ideas in the discussion document in the first post.
Does anyone want to make some progress on the player mood system? Erno, do you have those graphics still handy?
Feb 23, 2016, 2:48 am
#3
Joined: Dec 11, 2008
Posts: 1,770
Current plan looks pretty good IMO.

Have ghosts look like the previously deceased player
The Slave already uses the same code as the player and has his equipment accurately represented on his person - could we appropriate this for player ghosts and just change the opacity of the sprite?
Like playerkind CONFIG Spooky

Insect clouds

We can probably just appropriate the animated fly sprites that show up on rotting things for the graphics.
I dunno how the bug clouds were intended to work though... enemies? They wander and rot food? Or what? Sting your eyes?

Damascus steel between meteoric and adamant
This sounds like the easiest thing on the list.
Just slap an entry in the material.dat and define.dat files and away we go for playtesting.

Male/female player (?)
I still have the sprites I made for the wisdom concept sitting around if you want. Somewhere.
Feb 23, 2016, 4:28 am
#4
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4zb4 wrote
Like playerkind CONFIG Spooky
Damn, that's smart. I really hadn't thought of that option. That's likely to be the first thing I try out (You sure you haven't programmed any C before? Could use a mind like yours.)

4zb4 wrote
I still have the sprites I made for the wisdom concept sitting around if you want. Somewhere.
Have you tested them in-game? Just add them to the git repo if you can. Otherwise post the files?
Feb 23, 2016, 7:26 am
#5
Joined: Dec 11, 2008
Posts: 1,770
Warheck wrote
Damn, that's smart. I really hadn't thought of that option. That's likely to be the first thing I try out (You sure you haven't programmed any C before? Could use a mind like yours.)


Have you tested them in-game? Just add them to the git repo if you can. Otherwise post the files?

Oh no, I have learned C (and C++) by now I just hadn't at time you rolled up to the forum.

I'm 90% sure I tested the sprites in-game since that's how I took the screenshots, they were just modifications on the head textures. I'll have to dig around and make sure I still have the PCX on hand somewhere.
Feb 23, 2016, 11:57 am
#6
capristo's avatar
The Imperialist


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Whoa, I had forgotten about this thread. Stickied it
Feb 23, 2016, 2:56 pm
#7
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In Re insect clouds. I would think making them easy to hit but hard to damage would be interesting. If you were swinging wildly at a cloud of insects you would easily hit one or two of them without causing a large amount of loss to the swarm.
Feb 23, 2016, 5:57 pm
#8
Ernomouse's avatar
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Warheck wrote
Does anyone want to make some progress on the player mood system? Erno, do you have those graphics still handy?

I think you mean the SOULM9.pcx & SOULF7.pcx - they are hidden in the attached DOC which is a zip folder in disguise. Just change the extension back to zip and you've cracked my encryption. They come with the following instructions from J_Kahvi:
SPOILER ALERT. Click here to see text.
here they are. i don't know if the female face is feminine enough, your
opinion?
descriptions per row:

high morale
low morale
low morale, fatigue
low morale, fainting
berserk
panic
psycho (high morale)
panic, fatigue
panic, fainting
psycho, fatigue
psycho, fainting
unconscious/dead/game complete!
sex 1/sex2/sex3
small berserk grin
medium berserk grin
big berserk grin
small grin
medium grin
big grin
vomit
vomit
vomit
vomit
berserk vomit
berserk vomit
berserk vomit
berserk vomit
berserk, fatigue
berserk, fainting
high morale, fatigue
high morale, fainting


grin is used when found cool object, tough monster killed etc. let's do
some more thinking on conditions for where to grin and how much to grin!

still searching for that text file with damage values for weapons...

kahvi

----
Forgot something! The last face is of course berserk sex.

Maybe grins could be simply caused by morale points going up instead of
any more specific mechanism? So we need to have morale points increase
when tough monsters killed or cool objects found or quests complete...
more suggestions?

J_Kahvi

----
i suggest the face should be animated as follows:

blink duration slightly randomized, blink every 5 secs, +- 1,5 secs.

the better the morale, the fewer blinks and the lower the morale, the
more blinks! minimum morale causes blink every 3 secs and maximum morale
every 7 secs.

when blinking, frame sequence is as follows:

1. eyes entirely closed
2. eyes half-open

i think this is what they do in jagged alliance, and it works. So,
practically, frame 1 is NOT eyes half-open.

kahvi
Feb 23, 2016, 9:12 pm
#9
Joined: Dec 11, 2008
Posts: 1,770
Looks like I either didn't save the female hair PCX file or I deleted it at some point. Damn.

In any case I had just copied over one of the housewife heads and extended the hair a little for each WIS level, so it wouldn't be too hard for me to draw them up again.
Do you want me to upload them as a separate PCX, or just add them into some blank space on humanoid.pcx and upload that?

Here's a preview from what I did previously, it'd be really easy for me to do them again. Just pick what you like or maybe we can go with something completely different?
Feb 23, 2016, 10:58 pm
#10
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Ernomouse wrote
Forgot something! The last face is of course berserk sex.

Come again?
Feb 24, 2016, 6:16 am
#11
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That's right chao, berzerk sex.

4zb4 wrote
Do you want me to upload them as a separate PCX, or just add them into some blank space on humanoid.pcx and upload that?

Here's a preview from what I did previously, it'd be really easy for me to do them again. Just pick what you like or maybe we can go with something completely different?

Azba, just add them into some blank space in humanoid.pcx. I like the stuff in the top row, it's the same as the one in full armor right?

Thanks Erno for the link to the file. The faces look amazing! Are they meant to replace the head in the mannequin type thing in the right-hand pane?
Feb 24, 2016, 5:41 pm
#12
Joined: Dec 11, 2008
Posts: 1,770
Warheck wrote
Azba, just add them into some blank space in humanoid.pcx. I like the stuff in the top row, it's the same as the one in full armor right?

Correct.

I just uploaded the updated humanoid.pcx to Github.
The new heads are next to the current male ones, as seen here:


The "mood" files remind me a lot of DooM. I imagine that was kinda the idea?
Feb 25, 2016, 1:27 pm
#13
red_kangaroo's avatar
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Would it be possible to add either a leather strap over the female character's breasts, or her nipples? Right now, it looks a bit wierd with her wearing panties but with nothing in the chest area.
Feb 25, 2016, 3:08 pm
#14
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Posts: 1,770
red_kangaroo wrote
Would it be possible to add either a leather strap over the female character's breasts, or her nipples? Right now, it looks a bit wierd with her wearing panties but with nothing in the chest area.

Should be able to.
For those preview images I was just messing around by slapping the Priestess of Silva's legs on the player's default body.
Feb 25, 2016, 6:24 pm
#15
Ernomouse's avatar
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4zb4 wrote
The "mood" files remind me a lot of DooM. I imagine that was kinda the idea?

Yup, although I remember Wolfenstein 3D being mentioned. I think the mood was meant as an extra aid to tell the player how the character is doing, not to replace the mannequin. My notes are, sadly, lost.

Feb 26, 2016, 4:49 am
#16
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4zb4 wrote
I just uploaded the updated humanoid.pcx to Github.

Awesome! I found the bit in the code where the game determines which head bitmap to use, here.
Feb 26, 2016, 9:44 am
#17
Joined: Dec 11, 2008
Posts: 1,770
Warheck wrote
Awesome! I found the bit in the code where the game determines which head bitmap to use, here.

Looks like we can just include an IF statement to check if the player is male or female and just slap on 16 to the X axis for females (or 32 for the default head since it's a little further over than the others)

v2 playerkind::GetHeadBitmapPos() const
{
  int Sum = GetAttribute(INTELLIGENCE, false) + GetAttribute(WISDOM, false);
  int headX = 96;
  int headY = 416;
  if(GetIsFemale)
    headX += 16;

  if(Sum >= 60)
    return v2(headX, headY + 64); //wisest head
  else if(Sum >= 40)
    return v2(headX, headY + 48); //wise head
  else if(GetIsFemale)
    return v2(headX + 16, headY); //default head
  else
    return v2(headX, headY); //default head
}

Something like that? Can't really think too good right now, I should have gone to bed a while ago.
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