Dualwield or shield

Aug 13, 2015, 6:28 am
#1
Joined: Jul 28, 2014
Location: Poland,under a bridge
Posts: 52
What is better becouse I don't know.
Aug 13, 2015, 1:16 pm
#2
Joined: Feb 20, 2012
Posts: 231
I think there's an old post around here that does the math, but dual-wielding is pretty much always a better idea than using a shield, since you can block attacks with weapons anyways.
Aug 13, 2015, 1:56 pm
#3
Joined: Jul 28, 2014
Location: Poland,under a bridge
Posts: 52
Pent wrote
I think there's an old post around here that does the math, but dual-wielding is pretty much always a better idea than using a shield, since you can block attacks with weapons anyways.
Now I see a diffrence dual-wield is used to kill enemies faster and thanks to that, enemy will stike me less and shields are... everyone knows.

Aug 13, 2015, 5:09 pm
#4
Joined: Dec 11, 2008
Posts: 1,770
Pent wrote
I think there's an old post around here that does the math, but dual-wielding is pretty much always a better idea than using a shield, since you can block attacks with weapons anyways.

It's like this:
To begin with, a shield is FAR better at blocking than any weapon because they get a 2x multiplier to their block chance. But you can't attack with a shield.
When you gain skill levels with a weapon, you also become more likely to parry an attack with it.

So shields are good for blocking to begin with, but as you gain skill levels with your weapons they begin to outperform shields. If you have two weapons you are twice as good at blocking attacks, so your chance of blocking an attack while dual wielding is higher than using a single shield once you have enough skill with said weapons.

Some weapons are better at blocking than others too. I wrote this up on the wiki somewhere but I forget where, maybe the weapons page?

Aug 13, 2015, 5:49 pm
#5
Joined: Jun 23, 2014
Occupation: computer science student
Location: Helsinki, Finland
Interests: Programming languages, language design, compilers, music production
Posts: 25
4zb4 wrote
But you can't attack with a shield.

Except SPOILER ALERT. Click here to see text.
an acid shield
.
Aug 14, 2015, 2:35 am
#6
Joined: Dec 11, 2008
Posts: 1,770
I went to review my old wiki edits.

If you're interested in dual wielding for blocking, the best weapons for it in order of block rate are:
1. Spetum (LIVAN)
2. Halberd
3. Battle-axe
4. Knight sword (LIVAN)
5. Two-handed Sword
6. Quarterstaff

Problem being all of those except the battle axe have huge single-arm ASTR requirements.
As for the smaller weapons you'd be better off using maces or battle axes since you can dual wield those much sooner and they have decent block rates (mace has 2100, the highest of the "10 ASTR" weapons and barely behind the quarterstaff). Once you have more ASTR you can move on to one of the bigger weapons that fits whatever skill levels you built using the smaller ones.
Aug 20, 2015, 5:21 pm
#7
Joined: Dec 4, 2007
Posts: 183
If I remember correctly, blocking was based on an item's "roundness". Shields have high roundness, and items such as the Lantern have good roundness (But are brittle, and usually shatter after blocking a hot).
Aug 21, 2015, 2:22 am
#8
Joined: Apr 2, 2014
Occupation: Navastating
Location: Aslona
Posts: 669
Would it be possible to enable shield bashes, for the reason mentioned above, that any kind of dual wielding will very quickly overshine shields simply because you have two attacks *and* two blocking chances, even though smaller?

They need not neccessarily do lot of damage, but giving them at least some offensive capability would nicely balance them against high damage, lower blocking of most other weapons.

I'm not sure, but defining shield as melee weapon instead of as an armor in gear.h might do the trick?
Aug 21, 2015, 4:18 am
#9
Joined: Dec 11, 2008
Posts: 1,770
Zayre wrote
If I remember correctly, blocking was based on an item's "roundness". Shields have high roundness, and items such as the Lantern have good roundness (But are brittle, and usually shatter after blocking a hot).

Correct.
The block modifier is simply the item's size multiplied by its roundness. Lanterns are in fact very round and a hardened one can make for an OK shield since it hardens straight into illithium and has the added bonus of casting light.
Aug 22, 2015, 11:44 pm
#10
Joined: Dec 3, 2007
Occupation: Chaos Weaver
Location: Standing between all life and death
Posts: 2,842
red_kangaroo wrote
Would it be possible to enable shield bashes, for the reason mentioned above, that any kind of dual wielding will very quickly overshine shields simply because you have two attacks *and* two blocking chances, even though smaller?

They need not neccessarily do lot of damage, but giving them at least some offensive capability would nicely balance them against high damage, lower blocking of most other weapons.

I'm not sure, but defining shield as melee weapon instead of as an armor in gear.h might do the trick?

Oh believe me, we've considered that for a long time. It's just not a priority when development itself is barely going.
Aug 23, 2015, 4:38 am
#11
Joined: Dec 4, 2007
Posts: 183
chaostrom wrote
Oh believe me, we've considered that for a long time. It's just not a priority when development itself is barely going.

Honestly, you could probably duplicate the code for the acid shield and have it so that instead of having it spill acid on you, it does "generic damage" (Blunt/crushing) and have the flavor text be changed to: "You slam the target with your shield!". Or perhaps it should function like a kick-riposte? "You slam the target with your shield! <X> is knocked off balance."
Aug 23, 2015, 11:54 pm
#12
Joined: Dec 3, 2007
Occupation: Chaos Weaver
Location: Standing between all life and death
Posts: 2,842
If it were that simple we'd have done it already. From what I understand, it's not. Though my understanding does come second hand from others who have code dived, so I could be wrong.
Jan 14, 2016, 3:22 am
#13
Joined: Oct 3, 2015
Occupation: floating eye
Location: Genetrix Vesana's maw
Interests: nuts
Posts: 1
Zayre wrote
Honestly, you could probably duplicate the code for the acid shield and have it so that instead of having it spill acid on you, it does "generic damage" (Blunt/crushing) and have the flavor text be changed to: "You slam the target with your shield!". Or perhaps it should function like a kick-riposte? "You slam the target with your shield! <X> is knocked off balance."

Indeed that would be nice. I remember making a build with 2 shields and boots of kicking. It was fun. Not powerful, but fun.
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