polymorph victory?

Is it possible to permanently polymorph into another creature? Say if you are wearing rings of both polymorph and poly-control?

Has anybody ever done this and accomplished a victory as a non-human?

Also, what would happen if you were an orc, for example, and gained strength, intelligence, etc. and then accidentally became human again. If you tried to become an orc again would you lose all those stats you had gained before?

So far as I remember, you lose those stats. I could be wrong though.

I'm guessing you're right. That would make a polymorph victory really risky to attempt. If you lost one of your rings or got an arm chopped off that timer would start ticking for you to get it back on!

I don't think permanent polymorphs are possible in any way. You'd need to stack the effect duration somehow, which just isn't doable with how polymorph works. Say you pray to Scabies for the longest (i think?) duration polymorph and turn into a whip champion. Zapping yourself with a wand of polymorph and asking to become whip champion again just results in "You choose not to polymorph" and skipping the effect, as you are that creature already.

Yes, you do lose any stats gained while polymorphed if you revert to the original form.

This is not to say a polymorph run wouldn't be feasible; it's just extremely risky with how it's possible to lose your form mid-fight. Polymorphing into a humanoid grants you the weapon skills they have by default, so whip champions etc. with heavily enchanted whips would be rather deadly. Same goes for orc squad leaders/generals with polearms or dark knights with large swords.

Sounds like a fun challenge. You could try for a "kobold victory"

Maybe if you were Rondol...

It'll be awesome until you polymorph randomly into a spider and get stepped on....
Thank goodness Ring of polymorph control exists!

the second I get one I start chewing on mutated bunnies for the polymorph effect

At least the upside of not having polycontrol is that you can morph into things beyond your INT limit.
IIRC the chance of morphing into something worse than your current form is lower than turning into something better so long as you cast the spell.

I think we wrote something about it in the "too lazy to make a thread for" thread.

Which really should be compiled into an actual list.

and then put up on the wiki.

AFAIK the "polymorphing" status could become permanent via mushrooms and fountains6 and eating mutants but you won't permanently stay in one form.

If you have control then you can opt to stay in a particular form.

I think its achievable if you find an early ring of poly control andsource of polyitis- you can just keep polying into stronger monsters until you are something beastly. if you need to become something more powerful just poly into something smart first as a bridge.

It is of course item dependent. you need some source of poly control early on.

Every time you changed forms you would lose stats boosts. If you polymorphed into an elite dark knight and "you choose not to polymorph" I don't know what would happen to your stats boosts.

Its a shame that you can't cast spells when polymorphed into a mage.

I can't remember, is it possible to polymorph into named baddies/chars? A giant carnivorous mutant bunny victory would be sweet! An Elpuri win would have a new meaning. Sadly I don't think it's possible.

I have had permanent polycontrol from fountains. Its a petty random process though and wuite often you end up perma slowed

Could you (similar to blink dog effect) eat a ton of mutant bunny corpses and gain permanent polyitis? Then use a ring of polycontrol to play and win as a non-human

Ok so I think JoKe is right. It just isn't possible.

The reason is that polyitis only afflicts your original human state. After you polymorph into an orc, for example, that orc does not have polyitis. That means he will eventually turn back into human, and you have no choice in the matter when reverting, even with polycontrol. Maybe you should?

Possibly if you have an endless supply of wands of polymorph and can zap yourself as an orc to stay as an orc, that might work. But the polymorph effect can be really short, so you'd have to zap yourself pretty frequently to be safe.

This would also be an extremely annoying way to play the game since it would continually prompt you to polymorph

I think getting permanent polyitis is possible, but it's hard to tell since you can only check it with a stethoscope and that doesn't have the blue color for permanent effects

TLDR; polymorph win is not possible. But it would be really cool to be able to choose to be a different race than human, and play as an orc/mistress/kobold/etc

So, a ring of stability that negates all polymorph/teleport in your square?

Something similar was in the plans: https://github.com/Attnam/ivan/blob/df6b70cbead8f5b9ecd1fe7a...

Try my new PR to see if you can get a polymorph victory. https://github.com/Attnam/ivan/pull/197 (I did on something like my 5th attempt, having scripted the new ring into New Attnam)

Well I'll be. I feel the fixed stats in the stability amulet is kind of unfair though.

That was fast thanks Ighalli!

A couple thoughts
- might want to change the material from ice, in case we do implement melting ice in the future
- price 250 vs. 750 for polycontrol. I'm thinking this one should be more expensive

For polycontrol, what determines what level creature you're able to polymorph into? If I'm just starting the game I can't intentionally transform into a mistress torturing chief can I?

I do worry a bit about balance but if you can only polymorph into super powerful creatures by accident, then that helps

chaostom, yeah, stat freezes would be very weird. This ring doesn't do that, it just prevents any polymorphing (and provides a buffer in case your arm is severed).

capristo,
- I thought the idea of a ring that prevents change being made of unmelting ice was a cool mental image. If ice is made to actually melt, then we can put in something to make this item exempt and it'll be more interesting.
- Yeah this should probably be more expensive (2000?). Possibly I should also should tweak the frequency; right now it's so low that it would practically require a wish. Maybe it should not be RNG'd but always generated on a particular NPC, like the belt of levitation. Or, if people don't think it's too OP, we could raise it as high as 5 or so, like a polycontrol ring.
- Polycontrol is based on Intelligence and having seen the creature in question. The early game strategy if you get one of these rings is to eat mutant animals and wait until you get lucky then lock that form. If you found one late game, it might still be worth wearing polycontrol and just picking something beefy.

I noticed in my attempts that the siz attribute is really important for getting a strong humaniod. Very strangely, to my mind, mistresses are bigger than the player, at siz 180 (human form werewolves are smaller with 170). A genie is the size of a two-headed moose!

Oh ok, yeah the unmelting ice sounds cool.

Thanks for the polycontrol explanation.

I feel like there is a flaw with either approach:

If it's RNG, then you could get extremely lucky (find it early and get polymorphed into something powerful), in which case it is overpowered
If it's on an NPC, then you probably have to be pretty far along to get it, in which case it's not very useful (the whole point being, in my opinion, to be able to play and grow as a different type of creature)

I think we decided that the SIZ stat was basically height in centimeters for humanoids, since the human player is at 175 (roughly average male human height in centimeters).
Animals become a little more difficult to measure in that manner though. We can probably start assuming length or something there.

Back on topic here, It makes sense for mistresses to be slightly taller... because they're wearing high heels.

Heh, I couldn't agree more