creating stable chaos
making patterns where there should be none
sewing order into the chaos
you spit in the face of random numbers, of chaos
Tank!
Jul 22, 2009, 11:33 pm
Mage Prophet
Joined: Dec 3, 2007
Occupation: Chaos Weaver
Location: Standing between all life and death
Posts: 2,891
Occupation: Chaos Weaver
Location: Standing between all life and death
Posts: 2,891
Yeah, I had a mad idea for a tank in IVAN. It's complicated and probably never will be implemented, but I thought I'd share it anyway.
It's essentially a chest. You "a"pply it to get inside. Once inside, your character is overlaid with the tank unit. It can attack in melee ("running over", well, more like ramming) and can be "z"apped to fire the cannon, which is basically a really weak, but infinite charge, wand of fireballs. Once the tank unit is damaged to the point of destruction, it explodes and leaves behind a lump of metal and you (if you survive).
It's essentially a chest. You "a"pply it to get inside. Once inside, your character is overlaid with the tank unit. It can attack in melee ("running over", well, more like ramming) and can be "z"apped to fire the cannon, which is basically a really weak, but infinite charge, wand of fireballs. Once the tank unit is damaged to the point of destruction, it explodes and leaves behind a lump of metal and you (if you survive).
Jul 22, 2009, 11:54 pm
Atavus
Joined: Dec 11, 2008
Posts: 1,770
Posts: 1,770
That sounds like a great idea.
You could possibly make it that by (a)pplying the tank, you turn into a tank (sneaky creature change) that has a "Gun" equipped as the arm or head part which can be zapped. When you get out of the tank, it would simply replace the tank object on the ground and place you on top of it, making it look as though you were always inside the tank and not polymorphed into one.
The running through walls ability would be easy to implement, due to it already being in the game (Elpuri, Vlad).
The tank would obviously look hideously out of proportion if it was a 1 tile object. Therefore, it would need to be a 4 tile gigantic object, and thus would destroy most of UT and GC and probable not be able to work on the world map.
Also, how is the sprite going to work? The tank is obviously going to have to stay facing one direction (like all IVAN creatures), thus making it look really weird when the fireball comes out the oppisite side of where the tank's barrel is pointing.
Melee would be simple because it would be a creature. It would, of course require it's own attack flag to provide a "You ram Rondol the kobold patriach!" rather than a "You strike Genetrix Vesana the Mother Carnivorous Plant".
Regardless, i'm sure it would work out in the end and it does seem like a great idea. Especially for my AtomicIVAN battle fields. I would be happy to try and create it for you.
You could possibly make it that by (a)pplying the tank, you turn into a tank (sneaky creature change) that has a "Gun" equipped as the arm or head part which can be zapped. When you get out of the tank, it would simply replace the tank object on the ground and place you on top of it, making it look as though you were always inside the tank and not polymorphed into one.
The running through walls ability would be easy to implement, due to it already being in the game (Elpuri, Vlad).
The tank would obviously look hideously out of proportion if it was a 1 tile object. Therefore, it would need to be a 4 tile gigantic object, and thus would destroy most of UT and GC and probable not be able to work on the world map.
Also, how is the sprite going to work? The tank is obviously going to have to stay facing one direction (like all IVAN creatures), thus making it look really weird when the fireball comes out the oppisite side of where the tank's barrel is pointing.
Melee would be simple because it would be a creature. It would, of course require it's own attack flag to provide a "You ram Rondol the kobold patriach!" rather than a "You strike Genetrix Vesana the Mother Carnivorous Plant".
Regardless, i'm sure it would work out in the end and it does seem like a great idea. Especially for my AtomicIVAN battle fields. I would be happy to try and create it for you.
System would indicate in graphic if person is mounted on horse or not. Same system also show if person mounted on boar, elephant, polar bear etc. Or if person mounted on ass. Ivan find mounting on ass funny.
Jul 23, 2009, 7:53 pm
Atavus' Little Helper
Joined: Dec 2, 2007
Occupation: archmage
Location: Attnam
Interests: roguelikes
Posts: 375
Occupation: archmage
Location: Attnam
Interests: roguelikes
Posts: 375
There is already a tank-like graphic in char.pcx.
Jul 23, 2009, 10:03 pm
Atavus
Joined: Dec 11, 2008
Posts: 1,770
Posts: 1,770
Z the problem with that graphic is that when you go to use the (z)ap to fire the cannon, it will look extremely odd to see the projectile coming out the tank's ass. Or roof. Or tracks for that matter.
Oh, and the problem with having the tank being a huge monster is that when it zaps anywhere but upwards, upwards-left, left or downwards-left, it hits itself due to the fact that it fires from the small red square which is placed at the top-left of the character.
And if it was a 1 square monster it looks horribly out of proportion.
Oh, and the problem with having the tank being a huge monster is that when it zaps anywhere but upwards, upwards-left, left or downwards-left, it hits itself due to the fact that it fires from the small red square which is placed at the top-left of the character.
And if it was a 1 square monster it looks horribly out of proportion.
System would indicate in graphic if person is mounted on horse or not. Same system also show if person mounted on boar, elephant, polar bear etc. Or if person mounted on ass. Ivan find mounting on ass funny.
Jul 24, 2009, 12:44 am
Washing machine wizard
Joined: Dec 10, 2007
Location: End of the Universe
Interests: Plotting
Posts: 1,037
Location: End of the Universe
Interests: Plotting
Posts: 1,037
Maybe it shouldn't be a tank... maybe a 1 tile mech or something.
Jul 24, 2009, 2:43 am
Mage Prophet
Joined: Dec 3, 2007
Occupation: Chaos Weaver
Location: Standing between all life and death
Posts: 2,891
Occupation: Chaos Weaver
Location: Standing between all life and death
Posts: 2,891
Hey, it was just a half-assed idea, but if someone wants to impliment it, go right ahead 
creating stable chaos
making patterns where there should be none
sewing order into the chaos
you spit in the face of random numbers, of chaos
making patterns where there should be none
sewing order into the chaos
you spit in the face of random numbers, of chaos
Jul 24, 2009, 3:14 am
Atavus
Joined: Dec 11, 2008
Posts: 1,770
Posts: 1,770
I happened to have made a "deathball" from this half-assed idea. It's basically a huge metal ball that tries to run you over. I'll post pics as soon as I can be bothered.
System would indicate in graphic if person is mounted on horse or not. Same system also show if person mounted on boar, elephant, polar bear etc. Or if person mounted on ass. Ivan find mounting on ass funny.
Jul 24, 2009, 5:03 pm
Washing machine wizard
Joined: Dec 10, 2007
Location: End of the Universe
Interests: Plotting
Posts: 1,037
Location: End of the Universe
Interests: Plotting
Posts: 1,037
Ha, what you just said reminded me of this:
Jul 25, 2009, 5:17 am
Atavus' Little Helper
Joined: Dec 2, 2007
Occupation: archmage
Location: Attnam
Interests: roguelikes
Posts: 375
Occupation: archmage
Location: Attnam
Interests: roguelikes
Posts: 375
Yes, there are more problems with graphics in IVAN. For example, unicorns are always facing to the left. When I am fighting an unicorn, and standing to the right of it, it is hitting me with its hooves, and when I am standing to the left of it, it is hitting me with its horn.
This is quite reasonable for an unicorn. But why does my dog go backwards when I am walking to the right? More importantly, why I am walking backwards when walking to the top of the screen? And how does a bunny attack with its rear side?
Also, when I am above that unicorn, and wielding a dagger, the game says that I am hitting it with that dagger. I don't know why would I use the dagger in this situation, it seems more reasonable to kick it.
Anyways, I see another problem with this tank image. It's all OK when attacking in a diagonal direction, but when shooting upwards, is it shooting on its left side or on its right side? I don't see any intuitive way of solving this problem.
This is quite reasonable for an unicorn. But why does my dog go backwards when I am walking to the right? More importantly, why I am walking backwards when walking to the top of the screen? And how does a bunny attack with its rear side?
Also, when I am above that unicorn, and wielding a dagger, the game says that I am hitting it with that dagger. I don't know why would I use the dagger in this situation, it seems more reasonable to kick it.
Anyways, I see another problem with this tank image. It's all OK when attacking in a diagonal direction, but when shooting upwards, is it shooting on its left side or on its right side? I don't see any intuitive way of solving this problem.
Jul 25, 2009, 5:49 am
Atavus
Joined: Dec 11, 2008
Posts: 1,770
Posts: 1,770
I suppose if there was some way to change the script to allow rotating it with an action...
Or we could take the cheap-arsed way out and make a stupid spherical tank that has cannons pointed in every possible direction and no sign of tracks in the graphics.
Or we could take the cheap-arsed way out and make a stupid spherical tank that has cannons pointed in every possible direction and no sign of tracks in the graphics.
System would indicate in graphic if person is mounted on horse or not. Same system also show if person mounted on boar, elephant, polar bear etc. Or if person mounted on ass. Ivan find mounting on ass funny.
Jul 25, 2009, 6:12 am
Mage Prophet
Joined: Dec 3, 2007
Occupation: Chaos Weaver
Location: Standing between all life and death
Posts: 2,891
Occupation: Chaos Weaver
Location: Standing between all life and death
Posts: 2,891
I don't actually think that's such a big problem, Z. The only real problem I see with it is that you can't tell which direction you're facing. I do believe that someone said it's possible to be hit in the back, and that it actually makes a difference?
creating stable chaos
making patterns where there should be none
sewing order into the chaos
you spit in the face of random numbers, of chaos
making patterns where there should be none
sewing order into the chaos
you spit in the face of random numbers, of chaos
Jul 25, 2009, 6:58 am
Atavus
Joined: Dec 11, 2008
Posts: 1,770
Posts: 1,770
Ahahahaha Z, your sarcasm knows no bounds.
You were intending that to be "who gives a shit. IVAN's full of that graphics thing" in long and drawn out form, right?
Regardless, it made me laugh.
You were intending that to be "who gives a shit. IVAN's full of that graphics thing" in long and drawn out form, right?
Regardless, it made me laugh.
System would indicate in graphic if person is mounted on horse or not. Same system also show if person mounted on boar, elephant, polar bear etc. Or if person mounted on ass. Ivan find mounting on ass funny.
Jul 25, 2009, 9:44 am
Atavus' Little Helper
Joined: Dec 2, 2007
Occupation: archmage
Location: Attnam
Interests: roguelikes
Posts: 375
Occupation: archmage
Location: Attnam
Interests: roguelikes
Posts: 375
Yes... I didn't know whether your issue was intended as a serious one or a joke, so I responded with a joke.
I don't think there is a problem with facing, in IVAN monsters have no facing and I think there is no reason for the tank to be different. Also, you can use missiles in 8 directions in IVAN, and the tank shooting should be no exception either.
TT..........x......
TT...............y..
But in this picture, if the tank covers the four T's and shoots right, does the missile go on the top row (hitting the 'x' monster), on the bottom row (hitting the 'y' monster), randomly, user-selectable (not good since it is a special case in UI and it breaks the 8 direction rule), in between (hitting both, but also being blocked by walls in both), or what?
I suppose the "in between" option is actually OK, but it required some thinking to discover. Wow, 2x2 monsters + 8-directional shooting = trouble.
I don't think there is a problem with facing, in IVAN monsters have no facing and I think there is no reason for the tank to be different. Also, you can use missiles in 8 directions in IVAN, and the tank shooting should be no exception either.
TT..........x......
TT...............y..
But in this picture, if the tank covers the four T's and shoots right, does the missile go on the top row (hitting the 'x' monster), on the bottom row (hitting the 'y' monster), randomly, user-selectable (not good since it is a special case in UI and it breaks the 8 direction rule), in between (hitting both, but also being blocked by walls in both), or what?
I suppose the "in between" option is actually OK, but it required some thinking to discover. Wow, 2x2 monsters + 8-directional shooting = trouble.
Jul 25, 2009, 11:24 pm
Atavus
Joined: Dec 11, 2008
Posts: 1,770
Posts: 1,770
Currently, it would fire along the "x" path in your diagram, due to the player box being placed over the top-left square of the graphic. And hit itself.
I was thinking of the tank being a top-down graphic (unlike all the other IVAN monsters), and thus it would look like crap with a missile coming out the reverse-and-slightly-upwards side of the barrel. Also, i'm getting sick of shooting myself
I was thinking of the tank being a top-down graphic (unlike all the other IVAN monsters), and thus it would look like crap with a missile coming out the reverse-and-slightly-upwards side of the barrel. Also, i'm getting sick of shooting myself
System would indicate in graphic if person is mounted on horse or not. Same system also show if person mounted on boar, elephant, polar bear etc. Or if person mounted on ass. Ivan find mounting on ass funny.
Jul 26, 2009, 6:21 am
Mage Prophet
Joined: Dec 3, 2007
Occupation: Chaos Weaver
Location: Standing between all life and death
Posts: 2,891
Occupation: Chaos Weaver
Location: Standing between all life and death
Posts: 2,891
Pray tell, what is wrong with a 1 tile mini-tank anyway? I mean, hell, most corridors in the game are only 1 tile wide anyway, so more often than not you'd have a chunk of wall blocking your line of fire anyway.
creating stable chaos
making patterns where there should be none
sewing order into the chaos
you spit in the face of random numbers, of chaos
making patterns where there should be none
sewing order into the chaos
you spit in the face of random numbers, of chaos
Jul 26, 2009, 11:35 pm
Atavus
Joined: Dec 11, 2008
Posts: 1,770
Posts: 1,770
Well the only problem I have with it is that it would look horribly out of proportion, as mentioned.
System would indicate in graphic if person is mounted on horse or not. Same system also show if person mounted on boar, elephant, polar bear etc. Or if person mounted on ass. Ivan find mounting on ass funny.
Jul 27, 2009, 2:13 am
Mage Prophet
Joined: Dec 3, 2007
Occupation: Chaos Weaver
Location: Standing between all life and death
Posts: 2,891
Occupation: Chaos Weaver
Location: Standing between all life and death
Posts: 2,891
Like bears and mammoths don't look out of proportion?
creating stable chaos
making patterns where there should be none
sewing order into the chaos
you spit in the face of random numbers, of chaos
making patterns where there should be none
sewing order into the chaos
you spit in the face of random numbers, of chaos
Jul 27, 2009, 2:37 am
archangel
Joined: Nov 22, 2008
Interests: IVAN
Posts: 1,170
Interests: IVAN
Posts: 1,170
It's perfectly possible to fit this on one square
Beware! 'tis EagleV, Hardcore Weaver of Baskets!
Jul 27, 2009, 2:57 am
Atavus
Joined: Dec 11, 2008
Posts: 1,770
Posts: 1,770
Ok ok whatever.
System would indicate in graphic if person is mounted on horse or not. Same system also show if person mounted on boar, elephant, polar bear etc. Or if person mounted on ass. Ivan find mounting on ass funny.