Help with Sci Talking and more

Hi, I'm "new" to this forums (as I had an account a time ago but dissapeared) and the farest I got was to Dark Level only once and my best characters get to the level of the mystic frogs that are really annoying.

Well here are my questions:

First, I wanted to know exactly how do you people raise your INT and WIS sci talking, because in the best case I raised them to 17 or so by reading books, offering, etc but couldn't reach the 20 required to sci talk with the librarian. I could sci talk with a greater dark frog I tamed in GC but only raised me 1 point.

Also, I would like to know how do you improve your equipment. It's rare that I find a wand of cloning/mirroring or a scroll of wishing to have more scrolls of enchant armor/weapon and scrolls of change material. I usually go for a scroll of taming and take all the equipment from the elite guards in Attnam wich is also great for making money by selling their stuff. But never ever changed the material of my equipment and as I can see most of you do, so it's clear I'm missing something.

If anyone could give me a hand with this it would be great!

I'm not so good at scitalking so I wont answer to first one.

Yes, it is quite rare to find wand of cloning/SoCM. You can get wishes from many sources (fountains, scrolls (atavus?), oil lamps) so it isn't actually that hard to find them.
After all, it's all about luck. It's possible that you won't find any, and it's possible that you find one on every tile (I think). Sometimes I find none, sometimes one or two, once I got 2 clonings, 3 mirrorings, 5 chargings and a SoCM.

Hmm, is it possible to clone/mirror wands of cloning/mirroring? I have never tried this.

Well, first thanks for answering.

It's true that you have more than one way of getting wishes, but it's still rare for me. What happens is that when ever I get a promising character I prefer to avoid fountains as their results can turn deadly, for example, teleporting from GC2 to GC7, which means you're dead. Also oil lamps can result deadly in early and mid-early games, as an angry genie is more likely to own you in a couple of hits (you never know when he'll be happy to be freed or angry) which makes a risky move to use them unless you're well protected by pets or strong enough to take a genie yourself.

Regarding sci talking, I belive it's really important (that's why I want to learn how to do it properly), as if you don't have high INT you won't be able to make good profit from the scrolls.

@Azhael If you want to be sure you won't die to a genie, you can always go to Attnam and apply it there. However, if you don't have relatively high agility, you will probably lose the gear he drops (arcanite 2H scimitiar and spider silk belt).

@Pyk3 No, it's not possible to clone/mirror wands of cloning/mirroring nor scrolls of wishing. However, it's possible to clone or mirror oil lamps, but unfortunately the cloned/mirrored ones won't work.

Here are some pre 20 int/wis sci talk stats. they will be listed Character|Int boost|Wis Boost|Int requirement|Wis Requirement

Kaethos 50 100 10 15
Banana grower 10 25 5 10
Decos 25 0 10 0 (15 Cha requirement, 50 Cha boost)
Gr. Dark Frog 25 10 15 10
Dark Frog 10 5 10 5
App. dark mage 10 5 10 5
light frog 5 2 10 15
App Necro 5 2 10 5

The boosts are all relative but 100 shoud give you about +2 to +3 stat if you sci talk for 1 hr. most gains come in the first 10 min though. Also the likelihood of sci talking vs saying something mundane varies by character. E.g. banana growers have a 1 in 10 chance (so you have to talk longer) whereas kaethos has a much higher chance (80%???)

I always start each game sci taling Banana growers untill i get 2 wis and 1 int boost takes anywhere from 500 to 5000 turns. Smart characters (the 500 guys) will train Int and wis way faster consistently thoughout the game and dumb character are nearly imposssible to get 40 int/wis (so much so that I will fight New attnam if I have a really dumb character). If you get your first wis boost in less than 200 turns then you have a smart characters. Cha varies too, some chars will get first cha boost at 300 but most get it at 600.

Okay, thanks for the quick answer. Now I won't need to waste precious zaps to try it...

Allright, so you mean you spend quite a long time at New Attnam chatting with banana growers, which by the way are in constant move so it's impossible to hold down Shift+C.

Basically it's a hard pain in the ass to raise INT and WIS at the begining, isnt' it? Crap...

When you mention sci talking 1hr, you mean in the game or real time? Please don't say real time!

Thanks anyway!

just talk to BG encourager and talk to BGs until one goes up to deliver banana's to sumo. then stand in door way and hold "c" until another grower comes along. then get let one out and quickly hop into doorway after new grower enters sumo hut. Also if you get hurt bad in UT1-2. just run back to talk to banana growers until you heal.

Nice

Too bad that if you die early you have absolutely wasted your time, but I'll give it a try!

Thanks for the tips, and when you get 11/12 int and wis what do you recommend?

Continue getting INT/WIS Personally I'm not one for scitalking, as I already said, and my INT comes usually from scrolls cloned or mirrored. Sometimes if I'm lucky, I clone a can of ommel cerumen and drink it. This way I got my gear up to spider silk and octiron via SoCMs and SoHs.

Getting Int and Wis up is really boring, you spend a lot of time and if you get killed stupidly or before changing yout gear it's a complete waste of time.

I'm now with an apparently promising character that has 18 int. Can't wait to get 20 and talk to the librarian. I don't have any wand of cloning or mirroring though, nor a scroll of change material so it's kind of usless anyway. I'm in GC6 I think, and Xinroch swapned. I'm so scared, the "You sense danger" message appeared when I saw him and don't know what to do!

One more question about science talking: Is there a limit of points you can get from one person? For example: Can I get more than the first 1 or 2 points of int with banana growers?

yes there is a limit. most of the increases come at the start. eg. talk 10 minutes to kaethos and get +1 int. talk for another hour and get another +1. You would probably have to talk for days to get another +1. it is probably a logarithmic relationship i.e. int_boost=log(number_of_chats)*sci_talk_modifier

Oh I see...

You seem to know a lot Slob thank you very much really, you are starting to be some kind of living guide for me

Again when you speak about time you mean game time not real, don't you?

EDIT: Also I'm having some trouble for raising AGI and I don't know why, I run quite a lot and so.. tried dropping some banana peels and running over them while a giant carnivorous plant missed me and didn't went up maybe it's because i'm constantly burdened or something in my equipment, please if you know tell me







Also, if there is any tip you can give me seeing my equipment and stats it would surely help!

yes i mean game time

About Agility: to train it you need to run all the time while unburdened. the easiest way to run non-stop is to get to know Mellis and pray every 3 hours with empty/broken bottles. Any fluid you drink will remove exhaustion, water, troll blood, healing, ommel stuff - even alcohol, poison and acid (though i don;t recommend the last two). Being burdened/stressed or bloated/overfed will also cause you to lose agility

you have enough wis to sci talk to angels, that should get you to 20 int, also you can talk to the greater light frogs in cathedral

Well thanks for that. I already sci talked with the greater ligth frogs, what by the way is really annoying as they keep moving around like shit and the common light frogs makes it more difficult.

Right now I'm having problems because strong golems keep spawning in between the surface and where I am right now and take a lot of time to kill. Thanks to Vermis I can telep them away and rest meanwhile, but it's getting tough and I only killed the enner beast.

Also, Silva keeps naming me as champion of the cause but never sends an Angel. Guess that bitch only moves the earth

One question, for the game to spawn more lethal enemies you have to have the good stuff equipped, right? Because I have an AoLS and Saal Thul but in the inventory.

Yes, good tip about drinking fluids. To be unburdened, all you have to do is store most of your stuff in a chest. Keep the chest next to the level staircase, and every time you go up or down, take it with you and drop it off again. That way it will still be there in your bones file if you die, and since monster's can't open chests it keeps your items safe, while allowing you to travel without carrying them.

Well, finally I got killed by Xinroch the fucking skeleton warlord, who beheded me with ease.

I tried to get stronger by killing monsters on the previous levels but was impossible. Strong golems kept spawning and couldn't kill many of those because they have a lot of hp.

I don't know why the enemies got so strong so early

[quote="slob"]






Is this just observation or is there really a smart/dumb charecter variable?

[quote="Batman?"]
I belive it's a variable and not only for int/wis but for all the other stats too.

You may have characters that are more likely to train some stats easier than others.

Yep. I've noticed this for Agility - I usually run around the world map in the beginning to get an ability boost before descending the level, and some characters take much longer time to train than others.