Range

Apr 7, 2008, 9:09 pm
#1
Joined: Apr 7, 2008
Location: USSR
Posts: 258
Is there a way to fight without really getting into much melee?
Apr 7, 2008, 9:22 pm
#2
Joined: Dec 2, 2007
Location: New Attnam
Interests: bananas
Posts: 2,227
You can throw objects and zap with wands (or bananas). But other than that, there are no ranged weapons like bows & arrows, and no magic spells
Apr 7, 2008, 11:01 pm
#3
Joined: Dec 2, 2007
Occupation: Big Daddy
Location: Under a pile of my own offspring
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I think this goes in tips and tricks.

If you are invisible and get a lot of whips you can ranged attack enemies who can;t sense you. Or if you carry a bunch of bear traps and whips then you can set traps and fight enemies who can sense you while you are invisible. just set a line of traps between you and them and then throw things. Of course it doesn;t have to be whips but they are light and accurate and often highly enchanted.
Apr 8, 2008, 4:26 pm
#4
Joined: Apr 7, 2008
Location: USSR
Posts: 258
ok thanks, that sucks, that should be a good feature tho...
Apr 8, 2008, 6:12 pm
#5
Joined: Mar 12, 2008
Posts: 129
Though there was actually a plan for ranged weapons (as far as I can tell)

A lot of (or a few...) Ivan fans believe that the inclusion of ranged weapons would be against the style of IVAN

Now if the creator also thinks this I do not know.

I do agree with you though that Ranged weapons could be neat but they are kinda low on my wish list right now. (Though I guess Id put Ranged weapons above my "Martial art system")
Apr 8, 2008, 7:55 pm
#6
Ex-Tyrant of the IVANers


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I'd like designated thrown weapons. I.e. boomerangs, javelins, etc. And a skill associated would be nice.
"Put more stuff in the... thing where... more stuff goes in."
Apr 8, 2008, 8:37 pm
#7
Joined: Apr 7, 2008
Location: USSR
Posts: 258
Even if there wasn't much range items, i think there should be more spells or "wands" as you folks say it ^_^
Apr 8, 2008, 10:27 pm
#8
Joined: Dec 2, 2007
Location: New Attnam
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Posts: 2,227
Well, they are wands, not just spells. I do think magic & bows & arrows and stuff like that would be cool.
Apr 9, 2008, 11:09 am
#9
Petty Tyrant


Joined: Dec 9, 2007
Posts: 325
I just don't see the point in ranged weapons in IVAN though. You're in a fucking cave! What kind of a retard brings a ranged weapon into a dark, dank, can't-see-more-than-10-feet cave?
Wait, let me get this straight... you hit the button? OH SHI-
Apr 9, 2008, 11:52 am
#10
Ex-Tyrant of the IVANers


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I kinda agree with U_E, though having throwing weapons designed for throwing COULD be nice. As for magic... nah. Wands and scrolls are good enough for me.
"Put more stuff in the... thing where... more stuff goes in."
Apr 9, 2008, 3:32 pm
#11
Joined: Mar 12, 2008
Posts: 129
"What kind of a retard brings a ranged weapon into a dark, dank, can't-see-more-than-10-feet cave?"

One who can obviously run faster then his enemies and pelt them with ammo? One who doesn't want to get into melee combat with his enemies? I am pretty sure that Legolas didn't drop his bow and arrows the second he went into the abandoned Dwarven home. (I think he was with them).

Though mind you that your not in a cramp cave... each square represents over 5 feet making certain rooms in the game larger then my house.

I mean it is hardly stupid to bring bows and arrows into the dungeons (Afterall, it would be like saying Strike wands are stupid since all they are is a strong ranged weapon)
Apr 9, 2008, 4:53 pm
#12
Joined: Apr 7, 2008
Location: USSR
Posts: 258
Fine, since you guys don't like my ideas, i think there should be more types of wands then, do you like that?
Apr 9, 2008, 5:27 pm
#13
Joined: Mar 12, 2008
Posts: 129
What do you mean? I like the idea of Ranged weapons...

Though I do agree that there could be more Wand Variety
Apr 9, 2008, 6:19 pm
#14
Petty Tyrant


Joined: Dec 9, 2007
Posts: 325
Quote
"What kind of a retard brings a ranged weapon into a dark, dank, can't-see-more-than-10-feet cave?"

One who can obviously run faster then his enemies and pelt them with ammo? One who doesn't want to get into melee combat with his enemies? I am pretty sure that Legolas didn't drop his bow and arrows the second he went into the abandoned Dwarven home. (I think he was with them).

Though mind you that your not in a cramp cave... each square represents over 5 feet making certain rooms in the game larger then my house.

I mean it is hardly stupid to bring bows and arrows into the dungeons (Afterall, it would be like saying Strike wands are stupid since all they are is a strong ranged weapon)

Where does it say each square is 5 feet? If that's true then the main character is 5 feet tall and 5 feet wide, and hedgehogs are 5 feet long.

And have you ever shot a bow, crossbow, or a gun? You can't aim for shit unless you're standing still. Hell, you can't even string an arrow on a decent bow while moving unless you're a professional. Wands work because there is no load time and they're highly maneuverable...you just aim it and something in front of you asplodes.

And if you want to bring LotR in to this, think about this point: Legolas is certainly an exception because he is an elf and trained in how to use a bow unlike anyone else in the LotR universe. But guess what? In all the other siege scenes in the books and movies the archers are up on a wall firing from hundreds of feet away.
Wait, let me get this straight... you hit the button? OH SHI-
Apr 9, 2008, 7:01 pm
#15
Joined: Mar 12, 2008
Posts: 129
"Where does it say each square is 5 feet? If that's true then the main character is 5 feet tall and 5 feet wide, and hedgehogs are 5 feet long."
-What is the point of this statement? I said over 5 feet and you seem to think I said "Five feet exactly". It is obtained simply by finding what fits in the square enemy wise and item wise. Though Height is a entirely different matter all together.

"have you ever shot a bow, crossbow, or a gun? You can't aim for shit unless you're standing still. Hell, you can't even string an arrow on a decent bow while moving unless you're a professional."
-This statement only proves that ranged weapons are difficult to use... especially on the run... but ineffectiveness of the unskilled isn't a sufficiant reason... Since you can still just load a crossbow... Unleash a bolt into someone's head... Then take out your short sword and slice them up... or heck if you have time hit them multiple times.

"guess what? In all the other siege scenes in the books and movies the archers are up on a wall firing from hundreds of feet away"
-Except for... you know... all the ones where Archers and Crossbowmen have been in the front lines for short periods of time.
--You have found a situation where they are useful... but it is hardly their only niche
---In fact the Mongols tended to use Mounted Skirmishers (ranged) quite a bit... part of the reason they were so effective.

Ranged weapons are not made useless in IVAN... You are only presenting reasons of why they wouldn't be the "Greatest weapon ever"
Apr 9, 2008, 7:07 pm
#16
Joined: Mar 12, 2008
Posts: 129
I am going to bow out of this arguement... I don't want it to become heated
Apr 9, 2008, 8:00 pm
#17
Ex-Tyrant of the IVANers


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Alright in an attempt to defuse this argument IT DOESN'T MATTER. The devs will do what they want to do. However. From a gameplay point of view, it's justifiable simply in the fact that almost every other roguelike in existence has ranged weapons. This, in my opinion however, is NOT sufficient reason to include them. That's like saying IVAN should have kitchen sinks because NetHack has them. On the other hand realistically, it does not makes sense for really anyone to be using a longbow indoors. Of course there are exceptions -- some caverns can be large enough to be more or less like an outdoor area. But go in your average hallway and movement really does become a lot more restricted, and using anything larger than a handgun will get pretty hard. Not to mention that vision is limited... in most tunnels, unless you're the Flash you'll probably get off one, maybe two arrows from a bow before someone's on top of you, unless you're firing blindly. HOWEVER this is also not a sufficient reason NOT to include them. So it all comes down to what the devs feel like coding in.

OK, one final comment. Keep in mind, the game starts out, you are completely untrained in the use of anything other than a banana. The entire course of the game takes... Oh, maybe a week? Two weeks? It takes YEARS to master the use of a longbow. Crossbows are easier but still, it takes more than a week or so to really get good at using a crossbow.
"Put more stuff in the... thing where... more stuff goes in."
Apr 9, 2008, 9:51 pm
#18
Joined: Apr 7, 2008
Location: USSR
Posts: 258
I think were done with this topic?
Apr 9, 2008, 10:17 pm
#19
Joined: Dec 2, 2007
Location: New Attnam
Interests: bananas
Posts: 2,227
Hey Muffenz, not everybody disagrees with you. I'd like to see ranged weapons & magic & more varieties of wands as well.

Atomic, what makes you think mastering a sword would be any easier than a longbow? Also, I think weapons are a bit less trivial than kitchen sinks.

Anyways I agree with what you say ... it's up to the devs. I also agree that it doesn't really fit with the current game style. Which is a pity in my opinion.
Apr 10, 2008, 11:44 am
#20
Master mine stomper


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Apr 11, 2008, 9:04 am
#21
Joined: Dec 3, 2007
Occupation: Chaos Weaver
Location: Standing between all life and death
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It's just hit me. The perfect ranged weapon, which would fit in IVAN well too...

A pet bird missile.

Just as dwarves will use backpacks automatically, but attack normally when deprived of it, so will this pet attack normally, but once given an explosive...

It will explode. Whether it'll explode next to you, or fly at an enemy and then explode, who knows...
Uchuudonge wrote
creating stable chaos
making patterns where there should be none
sewing order into the chaos
you spit in the face of random numbers, of chaos
Apr 11, 2008, 5:52 pm
#22
Joined: Jan 11, 2008
Posts: 1,019
Kamikaze homing pigeons? That'd be pretty neat, actually. Plausibly even an upgrade to the veteran kamikaze dwarves.
Apr 11, 2008, 6:38 pm
#23
Joined: Dec 2, 2007
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If you tame the dwarves they do this already.
Apr 12, 2008, 7:18 am
#24
Joined: Dec 3, 2007
Occupation: Chaos Weaver
Location: Standing between all life and death
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Thing about dwarves is that they come hostile, with their own explosives >_>

These birds, though hostile, at least won't have explosives on 'em to start with.
Uchuudonge wrote
creating stable chaos
making patterns where there should be none
sewing order into the chaos
you spit in the face of random numbers, of chaos
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