Sirens
Jan 4, 2018, 3:38 pm
The Imperialist
Joined: Dec 2, 2007
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Location: New Attnam
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The confusion effect from sirens lasts way too long. I haven't tracked how many in-game days/steps it lasts but I know that I've come up several floors of TX, gone back to Attnam, back to TX, back down, back up, back to Attnam, and back to TX again before it's worn off. It's really almost nauseating
I'm guessing the value keeps compounding, but it needs to be limited to a certain # of steps after the encounter with the siren. Same thing with the loss of stamina effect.
however I took a peak at the code and can't actually see where the sirens are confusing me.
in `ReceiveSirenSong` I see that you can lose stamina, be charmed, or give an item... so where exactly is this confusion effect coming from?
I'm guessing the value keeps compounding, but it needs to be limited to a certain # of steps after the encounter with the siren. Same thing with the loss of stamina effect.
however I took a peak at the code and can't actually see where the sirens are confusing me.
in `ReceiveSirenSong` I see that you can lose stamina, be charmed, or give an item... so where exactly is this confusion effect coming from?
Jan 4, 2018, 4:27 pm
archangel
Joined: Apr 2, 2014
Occupation: Navastating
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Occupation: Navastating
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Sirens cannot confuse you. You have to be doing something else to get confused. 
The loss of stamina I feel is just okay, because if it was weaker, sirens would have no chance to actually make a visible dent into your stamina reserves (just look how long it takes for you to run out of stamina later in the game where sirens spawn more often). And it's still very easily counterable with water if you cannot kill the siren before becoming Exhausted.
I actually think the only nasty effect is the charming of pets. Sirens won't even run away when they steal something, and are fragile enough to kill even if they steal your weapon.
The loss of stamina I feel is just okay, because if it was weaker, sirens would have no chance to actually make a visible dent into your stamina reserves (just look how long it takes for you to run out of stamina later in the game where sirens spawn more often). And it's still very easily counterable with water if you cannot kill the siren before becoming Exhausted.
I actually think the only nasty effect is the charming of pets. Sirens won't even run away when they steal something, and are fragile enough to kill even if they steal your weapon.
Jan 4, 2018, 5:14 pm
The Imperialist
Joined: Dec 2, 2007
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Location: New Attnam
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So what on earth keeps confusing me? 
It really seems to only happen after encountering them
It really seems to only happen after encountering them
Jan 4, 2018, 6:35 pm
wolf
Joined: Dec 14, 2017
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Occupation: Student
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their stunning looks
Jan 5, 2018, 11:00 am
Ex-Tyrant of the IVANers
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Occupation: Junior Scientist
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their stunning looks
Hah!
But yeah on the topic at hand, I feel like I have also noticed becoming confused by sirens. Maybe I'm misremembering...?
"Put more stuff in the... thing where... more stuff goes in."
Jan 5, 2018, 11:51 am
wolf
Joined: Dec 14, 2017
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Occupation: Student
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I actually think the only nasty effect is the charming of pets. Sirens won't even run away when they steal something, and are fragile enough to kill even if they steal your weapon.
Jan 5, 2018, 12:10 pm
archangel
Joined: Sep 8, 2010
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Occupation: Petty Functionary
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Yeah, sirens shouldn't be able to charm every creature, there should be a limit. At least shop guards in Gloomy Caves and angels should be immune.
In that regard may I suggest that the charm effects would be most easily controlled by using some checks for team membership (eg Player Team only) and a charisma check, a la lyre of charm say. Threshold could be somewhere in between whip champion and warlady.
its been so long since i had gotten that far i didnt think it through. arrrr!!!!!!
Jan 7, 2018, 2:36 pm
hedgehog
Joined: Apr 13, 2017
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Is Elianise the elven ambassador supposed to steal your items like a regular siren does? I've had an amulet of elemental protection stolen from me by her in one of my previous runs.
Jan 7, 2018, 3:36 pm
wolf
Joined: Dec 14, 2017
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Occupation: Student
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Is Elianise the elven ambassador supposed to steal your items like a regular siren does? I've had an amulet of elemental protection stolen from me by her in one of my previous runs.
Jan 7, 2018, 5:33 pm
The Imperialist
Joined: Dec 2, 2007
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Location: New Attnam
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I agree that she shouldn’t. Especially because if you’re in the cathedral it ends up being cathedral property and you can’t get it back
Jan 8, 2018, 7:41 am
wolf
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Occupation: Student
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Or there should be a way to get it back, like if you give her jewelry, then she gives your items back.
Jan 9, 2018, 3:29 pm
The Imperialist
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Alright I figured it out. It's the elf flesh! I always eat the sirens after I kill them and elf flesh has EFFECT_CONFUSE when consumed 
Jun 19, 2018, 5:17 pm
skunk
Joined: Jun 19, 2018
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Posts: 1
Please remove that ability from her. I lost so many artefacts because she appeared out of nowhere and caught me off guard. It's so frustrating!!
Yes. I am very salty...
Jun 19, 2018, 5:30 pm
archangel
Joined: Apr 2, 2014
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Occupation: Navastating
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This bug is already fixed in 0.53 pre-release.
Mar 30, 2020, 7:29 pm
The Imperialist
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I kind of hate sirens. Idk if I would call them "overpowered" but the annoyance goes beyond anything else in the game.
stealing items, which can easily be a death sentence
exhausting you to a point of unconsciousness, also a death sentence
And again... the confusion effect when eating elf flesh lasts far too long. Possibly permanently if it's compounded similarly to eating floating eyes/blink dogs? Which is character ending since you can never again read a scroll.
This is made worse with the Aslona fungal caves, where siren corpses are one of the few "safe" things to eat when your only other options are zombies, spiders, snakes. Maybe a bat here and there.
Is there anything that can remove the confused state?
stealing items, which can easily be a death sentence
exhausting you to a point of unconsciousness, also a death sentence
And again... the confusion effect when eating elf flesh lasts far too long. Possibly permanently if it's compounded similarly to eating floating eyes/blink dogs? Which is character ending since you can never again read a scroll.
This is made worse with the Aslona fungal caves, where siren corpses are one of the few "safe" things to eat when your only other options are zombies, spiders, snakes. Maybe a bat here and there.
Is there anything that can remove the confused state?
Mar 30, 2020, 9:47 pm
Ex-Tyrant of the IVANers
Joined: Dec 8, 2007
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Occupation: Junior Scientist
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I propose a new liquid. Coffee. Cures confusion and exhaustion.
"Put more stuff in the... thing where... more stuff goes in."
Mar 31, 2020, 1:21 am
archangel
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I propose a new liquid. Coffee. Cures confusion and exhaustion.
+
Will do.I kind of hate sirens. Idk if I would call them "overpowered" but the annoyance goes beyond anything else in the game.
I share that sentiment.
I do think they are weak/fragile enough not to be a danger unless they surprise you, but they are annoying as hell.The FC level with several sirens was envisioned as about as annoying as the Enner level. Not directly as damaging, but very dangerous if you don't come prepared and let yourself get into a bad position.
And again... the confusion effect when eating elf flesh lasts far too long. Possibly permanently if it's compounded similarly to eating floating eyes/blink dogs? Which is character ending since you can never again read a scroll.
I could make it weaker.
Right now, they're like kobolds - just don't eat them. There's always the guaranteed altar to Seges.
BTW, what are your thoughts on nurphe bats?
Mar 31, 2020, 1:41 pm
The Imperialist
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I think I just keep forgetting that elf flesh is unsafe, since they resemble humans. Now that I've been playing again I had completely forgot that I already complained about this lol.
The guaranteed altar to Seges is nice but if you want to go chaotic or neutral, I just don't think there's enough food sources in FC. Every game I have played so far I've struggled with keeping satiated. Always had to gamble with eating mutant animals, or mushrooms, or sirens, all of which have risky effects. Although at least one of those had a tapeworm, possibly 2.
Coffee is a great idea, I think we should also ensure that confusion is never a state that can be permanent. It should max out at several in-game hours of confusion regardless of how much you consume. Maybe if you get too confused it should cause you to black out (as drinking too much alcohol would). But then when you wake up the confuse state is gone. That would also be a sharp reminder not to eat too much elf flesh
The guaranteed altar to Seges is nice but if you want to go chaotic or neutral, I just don't think there's enough food sources in FC. Every game I have played so far I've struggled with keeping satiated. Always had to gamble with eating mutant animals, or mushrooms, or sirens, all of which have risky effects. Although at least one of those had a tapeworm, possibly 2.
Coffee is a great idea, I think we should also ensure that confusion is never a state that can be permanent. It should max out at several in-game hours of confusion regardless of how much you consume. Maybe if you get too confused it should cause you to black out (as drinking too much alcohol would). But then when you wake up the confuse state is gone. That would also be a sharp reminder not to eat too much elf flesh