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Posted by red_kangaroo, Jul 4, 2017 at 10:39 am
Ischaldirh wrote
What would be the game impact of these changes?

Aligned/attached items can be (rarely) gifted by the given god when you pray to her, and grant slightly more piety when you sacrifice them at an altar. As I said, it would be mostly a flavour change, to make weapon alignment correspond to your stories and in-game lore. Players probably wouldn't notice much.
Posted by red_kangaroo, Jul 4, 2017 at 6:47 am
I was looking at the attached gods of various weapons and armor, and there are several I think could warrant a change to make more sense than now. This would be mostly flavour change to allow priests of all gods to wield aligned weapon (most priest do now, but some gods with no priests so far also ahve no aligned weapons), and for all gods to gift their weapons.

Long sword should be attached to Valpurus, not Cruentus. Justifier is a long sword, all Attnamese guards wield a long sword, all good angels use a long sword, yet Valpurus has no aligned weapon (discountig Justifier, which is a special artifact). This wouldn't upset the balance of gaining favour with Valpurus much, as we can see with Morty and his scythes.

Spear should be attached to Sophos. This is because he has no aligned weapon, bur Vermis is attached to him. Also so that the scholar-knight of Sophos can use their terrible martial art of Keihäs-Käyttö.

(Battle) axe should be attached to Cruentus, not Loricatus. Loricatus as a smith god has hammers and pickaxes, but why axes? Axe makes much more sense as a weapon of Cruentus, IMO.

Mace should be given to Legifer. Mortifer has Neerc Se-ulb, while Legifer should have Turox (see below), but Legifer has no other weapons while Morty has scythes.

Thunder hammer should definitely go to Loricatus. Magical hammers for the smith god. No question.

Flaming sword should probably be aligned with either Valpurus or Legifer. As said above, swords and Valpurus seem like a good match, but fire and Legifer is also good. As flaming swords are used by good angels, they don't make much sense aligned to Cruentus.

Weeping blade is now aligned to Scabies. As it's mostly made of crystal, maybe it would be better as a weapon of Silva? Maybe not? I'm not sure on this one.

Finally, Turox should be changed to a weapon of Legifer. This is mostly because of this story by Ischaldirh which I adapted to replies for lady Decora, so Turox was blessed by Legifer and should be his aligned weapon. Thus maces could also become weapons of Legifer, as said above.

As for armors, it makes good sense to give all chain/plate mails to Loricatus, but with the new changes of Atavus enchanting armor, armor becomes a bit of a theme for Atavus. Maybe he could be given gauntles, boots, belts and/or shields, to have a change to give those? It would also make sense, because Santa Atavus needs gauntlets and boots, or his limbs will freeze off in his secret Fortress of Solitude northern fortress.

Would you agree to those changes?
Posted by red_kangaroo, Jul 4, 2017 at 2:41 am
More changes as requested were done!

Now mostly the emissary remains.

fejoa wrote
It does really change the flavour of the game quite a bit, but for now the changes enhance development. In a related sentiment (not necessarily pertinent to this PR) I am wondering whether it would be appropriate for the community to put some sort of moratorium on further changes to the original story arc in future (say, by the end of the year) (notwithstanding mechanisms to be included in Attnam, or wherever, for enabling the discovery of parallel dungeons).

(Maybe more people will see it here.)

I like the original story arc and wouldn't like to see it changed. What I would like to see (and would could further change the flavour) is more story behind the various creatures of the game. Ivan has awsome chatting mechanic that few roguelikes have, and I think having more replies from which the player can learn about the lives of various NPCs could really enhance the game. That's why I started this thread and the PR, to give more life and story to the world of Ivan. And there's still much work to do, kobolds and golbins, or even many uniques have yet to say something interesting about themselves.
Posted by red_kangaroo, Jul 3, 2017 at 6:27 am
You just desecrated their temple. They don't have enough power to overthrow and kill Decos, because otherwise he would also be dead for desecrating the temple.
Posted by red_kangaroo, Jun 18, 2017 at 2:34 am
chaostrom wrote
I can see the value in the tin helmet actually. When your head goes critical you lose INT, perfect time to be ESP-invisible as you heal up without the need to worry about magical bombardment.

This, or when you have several mages behind some walls. I think that the tin helmet can have its uses.

fejoa wrote
Anyone remember the fruit bat from CLIVAN? (What fruit bat?)



Also, fruit bats were irritating and cool. We should bring them back. But vampire bats stealing your light source sounds like it would be even more irritating and cool.
Posted by red_kangaroo, Jun 14, 2017 at 3:22 am
Here come the changes!

* Some scitalk modifiers were decreased, but I would really like your opinions on which to decrease and how much. I don't normally use scitalking much, so I don't have the feeling for how much more powerful it is.

* Grammar hopefully fixed.

* No more lobotomy.

* Psypher is unwishable.

* Liquid darkness seems OK for bottles.

Things not yet changed as requested:

* There are still the quotes. I like them so I'm not very keen on removing them and the majority has yet to speak up.

* Emissary wasn't changed much.

* Amulet of elemental protection remains, but I would really like to see a discussion on its power. It's more OP in general than OP on a NPC.

* Hunters are still vegetarians (or they say so).

* Diamond is still valpurian. Should I just change it back until some good solution can be found?

If anyone feels like commenting on those changes, don't be shy! We need you opinions!
Posted by red_kangaroo, Jun 14, 2017 at 1:03 am
Ischaldirh wrote
It might be interesting to add a high-level material akin to D&D adamant - that is, unbelievably strong, keeps an edge, but if exposed to sunlight it rapidly becomes brittle and weak (in-game: perhaps it starts to "rot"). Then, vampires would prefer this material for weapons and armor as they don't really go out in the sun anyways - and it would exaggerate their weaknesses if they did.

That sounds quite interesting. However, you would (probably) be able to get around that by putting the items into a chest.

Batman? wrote
I echo your concerns that some of the changes being proposed are too closely aligned to mainstream Roguelike/D&D standards.

Serin-Delaunay wrote
I've got to agree here; porting niche mechanics from nethack doesn't seem like a very interesting direction for IVAN development.

These are not roguelike/D&D/NetHack standards. These come from the original mythology roguelikes/D&D/NetHack stole ideas from. Why do we even have vampires that suck your blood if we want unique and non-standard monsters?

Of course there will be some overlap, unless we want to make everything in the game completely unique, in which came it needs a complete overhaul and re-design to remove all the standard monsters aready in game. I don't want to go that route, because that brings us closer and closer to the terrible DCSS madness.

Batman? wrote
Make vampire bats able to steal light sources like magpies do, increasing the chance of you getting stuck in the dark.

This souds great! I don't know about the regenerating-in-the-dark, but simply loosing your light source is good and dangerous attack.

About the minor special properties, do you really think it would harm the game? Some may add flavour, some may find an unexpected use, ebcause players are really crafty. And nearly no minor special property is useless. How did you first feel when you discovered that you can resurrect a banana or un/lock chastity belts with the right key? I was delighted at the amount of thought and love that went into the game.I love how the devs took time to add minor easter eggs.
Posted by red_kangaroo, Jun 14, 2017 at 12:46 am
chaostrom wrote
Hum. Problem with that is that the skill factor completely overshadows any special properties of materials. Silver not being an idea material for a weapon, your choices would pretty much be limited to silver daggers.

That's why I suggest for mithril to also be considered a type of silver. Mithril comes from Tolkienian mythology and is called "true silver" there as one of its alternative names. We could even make silver harden into mithril.

Alternately, we could introduce better types of silver, eg. "moon silver".
Posted by red_kangaroo, Jun 13, 2017 at 10:30 am
It would be awsome if werewolves (and anything else with lycanthropy) had an aversion to silver (and maybe mithril, because mithril is "true silver" after all). Being struck by silver (mithril) weapon (or any item, really) could deal +50% damage to lycanthropes, while if they were wearing any silver equipment, it could occasionally sear them for small damage.

Similarly, vampires should have an aversion to sunlight. Either they could stop regenerating HP as long as they are above ground and outside during day, or they could take intermittent small damage to any uncovered body part (thus fully armored vampire would be immune to sunlight).
Posted by red_kangaroo, Jun 10, 2017 at 2:28 pm
Serin-Delaunay wrote
I think one's own errors always have a stealth bonus :>

Unfortunately.

Serin-Delaunay wrote
I'm under no illusions about Aslonians being heroes - he comes off as a racist slave-owning monarchist.

Then I achieved what I wanted!

Serin-Delaunay wrote
But compare this to how the game treats Attnamese slavery:
* The player character is a slave from New Attnam, whose daily life is described in detail at the start of the game.
* Several of them are shown onscreen.
* They talk to the player about their lives before and during the occupation, their opinions about the situation, their culture and interests, and each other.
* They have diverse social roles both before and during occupation.
* They can all be freed, and this happens because their masters are killed, not because their masters suddenly had a bright idea.

I wouldn't be in the slightest opposed to having a "Free slaves of Aslona" main quest one day.

Serin-Delaunay wrote
The problem here is similar to the problem with Aslonian slavery above. This evil isn't necessary to the plot, all it does is tell us about a powerful male character's values. In this case, a character we already knew was a monster, and it does that at the expense of including a marginalised character's voice, thoughts, and feelings in the game. Since it doesn't really add anything to the game, I think it would be more valuable to instead allow this character to speak.

I see. I'll do something with her.

Serin-Delaunay wrote
Making it more dense would only increase its power when used as a weapon material. That's why many weapons do more damage when made of adamant compared to valpurium. That might be OK if it's unwishable.

Requiring 150 INT is basically equivalent to making it unwishable. In normal play you can't get that high with dolphins or hats, in wizmode everything's wishable.

I'll make it unwishable, then, and we can use it as a special material for certain levels or uniques.

Serin-Delaunay wrote
What use do you see for liquid darkness? How could the player exploit it? It's not useful for the player to drink, monsters won't drink it voluntarily, and its effects when splashed on a creature might not be very helpful in combat. I guess it would be OK if it doesn't spawn in bottles, if it's used to decorate a unique level.

I was thinking about making a puddle under Petrus. But I may be overestimating its effects. I'll try and see if it would be OK in bottles.